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Was asked by a client the other day if I had an ROV Superintendents Certificate.

Last time I did any formal certification for ROV was in Windermere about 20 years ago! (HV, Pilot, Sub-Eng etc)

So, you see, I'm a bit out of touch.
Is this the same kind of competency 'Can you wipe your arse?' get it ticked twice in a box and you've passed section 1, or a credible worthy course?

FWIW I have been doing the post for about 8 years on/off, so am not scared to do an exam or something similar, but signing boxes to prove competency is just a bit of a kick in the nuts.

Any thoughts or real-life views?
I was on the kettle!
Yes ! Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
Ok this is what you need to do , Go to a previous company thats a IMCA member and request you need to be assessed as a Superintendent it does not have to be done by a school or a academy .

If you go to the IMCA web site it :- -

Go to section 4.4 Assessment and Review

Assessors need to be satisfied that personnel have demonstrated their competence on the job.

Generally such assessments are made with reference to ‘in house’ or industry developed approved assessment or performance criteria

Section 5
provides additional guidance for assessors.
Assessors may be any supervisor or manager with the necessary knowledge and training to apply the criteria in a fair, consistent and objective manner .

All the schools and academy's have been pushing for Superintendent and Supervisors courses to make extra revenue and nothing more . Just seen this on the MTCS web site " See attachment " You Do Not Need To Do This ! Go to previous company thats a IMCA member and request you need to be assessed as a Superintendent .

At the end of the day its what the schools can sell the clients look at the HV course , A few years ago the odd client might request one but now days most clients are requesting one .

If you want to see a good money spinner go to this MTCS URL :-

If you have not worked in 12 months you have to get re-certification on what ever grade you are .

The bottom line is what the client will and wont accept .
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Hi guys,

I'm going through the same hurdle. Got the MTCS portfolio and should submit soon. I'll let you know what kind of hoops I've had to jump through to prove I can occupy the same grade I've had for the last 8 years...

I was a bit surprised though that they charged VAT when I live in another country.

I wonder what's up with that.

Hi Chewy why are you getting MTCS for your grading assessment when it can be done for free by a previous company that's a IMCA member .

Plus on there web site it clearly states " All Certificates of Competence issued by MTCS have a 3 year validity period, after which they must be renewed in order to ensure personnel are still competent in safety critical, operational and maintenance activities. " Now this is not industry mandatory standard its some thing that is just that is down to MTCS " .

You can down load : -

Its in black + white or just drop IMCA a email and they will confirm .

Other wise every 3 years your be paying out for re-certification .

Ref :
Hi Raptor,

I've had bad experiences in the past where I've completed an employer's portfolios and did not get my certs when I left. This way, I pay and keep what's mine.

MTCS is hands down the most credible certification agency out there so I go for that.

Do I think it's right? No

But in the end, the client wants what the client wants and now that they gobble up IMCA guidance's like its legislation, I have no choice to follow.

Well its your money but every 3 years if MTCS have there way its going to cost you £250 + £50 VAT to be reassessed .
But if you go to one of your past employers who is a IMCA member they will do the assessment for free .

Its all in black and white on the IMCA web site " Supervisors and mangers can carry out assessments " It does make sense when you think that mangers and supervisor know the personnel being assessed and schools don't.

I would also like to point out that its not a mandatory requirement .
With the current recession guys could be at home for over a year should that be the case if MTCS had there way they would need to be reassessed again.
Raptor, thanks for the pointers - appreciated.

Definitely food for thought - I wonder if there is a Grandfather scheme? I guess not, as everyone is after a piece of the pie nowadays.
I was on the kettle!
Hi T-Boy yes I know what you mean with the Grandfather scheme I did that when I got my Gas Ticket back in the early eighty's when you had to submit your divers Log books in before the 31st of December 1981 or go back to school and re-qualify . In those days it was a one off requirement to show you were competent .

From reading on the MTCS web site all competence certificates issued by them are only valid for 3 years after that time they must be renewed in order to ensure personnel are still competent . Plus if you have not been actively working at this grade, during the previous 12 months you have to re-certify .

But like I said all you do is contact your past or current employer who is a IMCA member and get them to assess you at what ever grade you have been working at and it is a one off requirement this 3 year requirement with MTCS is just them and not a industry set standard requirement .

If it was made a mandatory requirement it would be worth millions at the end of the day how can a school or academy assess you when they don't even know you yet alone every 3 years .
Its an MTCS money making scheme ,, lots of agencies and ROV operations companies worldwide are being contacted and visted by MTCS salesmen who are then persuading them to sign up for this Competency scheme ,, a winner for MTCS , but not for our pockets .
For MTCS to make this work they need to get " All Rov Schools and academy to follow suit "

But from speaking with the other schools its clear like you say this is just a MTCS money making scheme . All the other schools I contacted told me like we all thought its a one off thing and you dont need to get re-certified every 3 years or with the way things are with the current recession many guys wont have worked for the year so they will all need to be re-certified .

I would like to know how MTCS can tell if someone is competent or not because they dont know the person ? This is why in the IMCA notes it states company's can carry out there own competence assessments and it can be done by a manager or supervisor people who know the person who is being assessed .

Quote :-

It states that Training establishments would not be expected to complete the 'Competence Assessment Record' - Part 4 of the IMCA Record of Competence. They should only complete Part 3 - 'Training Record'. However, they can make recommendations and/or supply documentation to assist the contractors in making their assessment .

To carry out assessments successfully, the assessor will need to be fully familiar with the assessment process. The assessor should be a " supervisor or manager " with the necessary knowledge and experience to be able to judge the competence being assessed. It is likely that the assessor would have been provided with suitable training on conducting assessments.

All I know is that if the rov operating company is a IMCA member as most are there is no need to send there personnel or there log books to a training school to be re-certified as they will do it them self .
Funny thing is; what makes a manager 'competent' to assess, or indeed does he/she have to have an IMCA Certificate to do so? Does the manager have an IMCA certificate o do his/her job...Noooo!
Of course not!

Seems like utter bollox to me, or maybe I'm just too sceptical?
I was on the kettle!
All I know is thats a £100 GBP per year that your be paying MTCS you might as well have a standing order with the bank to pay them if they had there way but like I said go to your current or past employer who is a IMCA member and get it done for free .

Ok its official after checking with IMCA they confirm that every body in the rov industry must be re - assessed every 3 to 5 years to keep there grade .

You can get your past or current employer who is a IMCA member or pay one of the current Rov schools and they will do it , The cost from a school is I understand about £300 . If any body wants to contact IMCA PM me and I will give you the guys email address .

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