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Not sure if right section but hey ho.
So i get, from time to time, people asking wether they should do these courses etc etc. Not wanting a debate on the merits or not but was wondering if anybody has any hard impirical data or at least some reliable figures on the amount of people that actually get continuing employment, either agency or employee, after doing one of these courses as a result of the contacts from the training school?
Do any companies actually commit to taking on a set number of people from these courses, ever, especially the more established/well known ones? (training schools that is)
Do these schools even keep a record of how many 'graduates' actually gain employment?
I'm guessing not many/no in reality but as i say that s a complete guess. Ultimately thats the key question for these places and the answer is always ambiguous. So like i say anyone got any hard data???? Rolling Eyes
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Stu360 wrote:
Not sure if right section but hey ho.
So i get, from time to time, people asking wether they should do these courses etc etc. Not wanting a debate on the merits or not but was wondering if anybody has any hard impirical data or at least some reliable figures on the amount of people that actually get continuing employment, either agency or employee, after doing one of these courses as a result of the contacts from the training school?
Do any companies actually commit to taking on a set number of people from these courses, ever, especially the more established/well known ones? (training schools that is)
Do these schools even keep a record of how many 'graduates' actually gain employment?
I'm guessing not many/no in reality but as i say that s a complete guess. Ultimately thats the key question for these places and the answer is always ambiguous. So like i say anyone got any hard data???? Rolling Eyes


When I completed my course at TUC, I wrote to about 400 potential sources of employment, all of the agencies except one said no thanks, come back when youre experienced. Companies it was a case of right place at the right time and I had 6 jobs offered. Now a year on and 500 hours of experience it's very different, all the agencies asking you to join them and moving companies is easy.

J
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Hi Stu360

Well lets come down to the hard facts of what we know !

There are thousands of people the same as you who have all ready done this course and most are still looking for employment . Just spend time on checking the Archives on this site and linkedin plus face book .

All you see is " Help " I did a Rov course and I cant find work .Just look back on the old topics of this web site about one in every 3 or 4 emails is regarding people looking for work in the Rov Industry .

All the Senior members of this site have said the same " The industry is just flooded with trainees " What makes it worse is the training schools are turning out more .

The debate for doing a course has been going on for years yes some people did do a course and within a short time of doing the course they found employment , As I have said many times before its all down to being in the right place at the right time . Think of it as playing the lottery out of the thousands who play the game you get the odd winner from time to time .

Most of the people have all ready made up there minds on doing a course well if you want to waste any thing from £2.5k to over a £10k then go ahead but we did warn you .

Do your research ,Plus rates for Rov personnel ihave gone lower and lower most offshore trade all ready earn more than Rov personnel do.

Well good luck

Raptor
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InnerState wrote:

When I completed my course at TUC, I wrote to about 400 potential sources of employment, all of the agencies except one said no thanks, come back when youre experienced. Companies it was a case of right place at the right time and I had 6 jobs offered. Now a year on and 500 hours of experience it's very different, all the agencies asking you to join them and moving companies is easy.

J


Yeah can understand agencies saying no. Surprised to some extent that most did! Did your company give you any indication if the course played any part in their offer of a job?

raptor wrote:

Hi Stu360

Well lets come down to the hard facts of what we know !

There are thousands of people the same as you who have all ready done this course and most are still looking for employment . Just spend time on checking the Archives on this site and linkedin plus face book .

All you see is " Help " I did a Rov course and I cant find work .Just look back on the old topics of this web site about one in every 3 or 4 emails is regarding people looking for work in the Rov Industry .

All the Senior members of this site have said the same " The industry is just flooded with trainees " What makes it worse is the training schools are turning out more .

The debate for doing a course has been going on for years yes some people did do a course and within a short time of doing the course they found employment , As I have said many times before its all down to being in the right place at the right time . Think of it as playing the lottery out of the thousands who play the game you get the odd winner from time to time .

Most of the people have all ready made up there minds on doing a course well if you want to waste any thing from £2.5k to over a £10k then go ahead but we did warn you .


Well good luck

Raptor


Think you've misunderstood my post, i'm not looking for a job. It was someone asking me recently wether they should do a course that got me wondering about the success rate of these courses, and whether there was/anyone had, any actual figures of attendees versus job success. I figured probably not but thought i'd ask anyway.
raptor wrote:

...~rates for Rov personnel ihave gone lower and lower most offshore trade all ready earn more than Rov personnel do~...

What trades would these be and whereabouts in the world as alot i see don't. Are these day rates you refer to or salaried?
Altough i must admit there are some where i wonder how they manage to get what they do or whether they're just full of it Laughing
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Yeah can understand agencies saying no. Surprised to some extent that most did! Did your company give you any indication if the course played any part in their offer of a job?



No they didn't, my view (and one not shared by all) is that it may give you an edge. If you have 2 identical candidates, very similar experience but one has done a course such as the TUC one and the other hasn't, which would you choose?

It was £5,500 that I couldn't really afford and maybe I didn't need to spend that money BUT what if I hadn't and I didn't get an offer? If I had my time over again, I'd still spend the money, I got good advice, a few pilot hours and an SQA qualification at the end of it (not sure how valuable that will be, only time will tell).

I can see both sides of the argument, it was sort of peace of mind for me, if I'd done a course and not got a job at least I'd given myself the best possible chance.

IS
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I dont understand why you want to do a Rov course ?

I must be missing some thing here Why would you any body spend £2500 or more on a course that is not mandatory requirement ?
You only have to go to the topic " ROV Next Step " on this forum to see people have got into the Rov Industry without doing a course .

I think the key question is would InnerState got the job even if he had not done the course .

Plus in the 40 plus years I have been doing this job none of the 6 people I have got into the industry did a course !
Sorry but I do not see any justification on spending all that money on what is just a IMCA guideline .

One thing we all agree on is the chance of getting into the Rov industry at a trainee level are very slim at this moment in time .

Cheers

Raptor
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Raptor wrote:

I think the key question is would InnerState got the job even if he had not done the course .

Cheers

Raptor


I don't know but it was a risk that I wasn't willing to take, I had no idea how to go about getting into the industry before my time at TUC. My time financially was running out, if another couple of months had gone by I would have lost my house and I was the wrong side of 55 years old. My take was simply to get every obstacle out of the way as much as possible, I did my BOSIET, MIST, Medicals, Jabs etc and then the TUC course so I was ready to go. I know at the time there was in excess of 1000 applicants for 8 positions, I was lucky enough to be chosen, my skill set was very appropriate as well as my experience, age I feel was against me though.

IS
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I fully understand InnerState your just telling others how you got into the rov industry but its a bit like someone telling others how you won the lottery .
Thousands play the lottery but only a few win .

I know you mean well the problem is many of these guys will take out a bank loan for a course they do not require .

As you have said you do not know if you would have got the job without the course , But some thing we do know 100% is you don't need to do a course .

Times are hard and money is hard to come by and there are so many people out there thinking of all these new a schemes to to get you to part with your money , But so many people get confused with mandatory requirements and just pain guide lines and its this that the schools are cashing in on .

Cheers

Raptor
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The whole...'Do a course or not' debate will rumble on as long as there is no legal requirement to have to do a course to work offshore in ROV.

Right now I think we can agree that completing a course will not guarantee work on completion and is not an industry or legal requirement.

We can probably also agree that for a technically trained person attending an ROV course it will not better prepare them to work offshore than not attending a course. They will gain little knowledge of the type needed offshore IMHO.
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jamesmc wrote:
The whole...[i]

We can probably also agree that for a technically trained person attending an ROV course it will not better prepare them to work offshore than not attending a course. They will gain little knowledge of the type needed offshore IMHO.


I think this is where we will have to disagree james..........

The technical aspects I absolutely agree BUT for people that have never worked offshore, never seen an ROV IMHO benefit quite a bit from the course experience. I appreciate from you experienced guys you probably wont see/understand this viewpoint but for me I got the following from the course:-

1) I learned about LIM's, never come across them in 40 years of working life.
2) Sonar, I had never used before, during the course I used it extensively.
3) Launch and recovery procedures, variations with 'A' frame and Crane type launch
4) Working with divers
5) My CV was vetted and I was advised what to include, what to remove etc
6) Several talks re potential employers

and more

All of this, along with practical flying experience IMHO was worth the money TO ME.

IMHO doing a course will do no harm and may do potentially a bit of good. It's not the magical solution that some people may think, it does however give some understanding of what's going on. The real question is, is it worth the money to you personally, only the individual can decide that.

IS
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Raptor wrote:
I fully understand InnerState your just telling others how you got into the rov industry but its a bit like someone telling others how you won the lottery .
Thousands play the lottery but only a few win .

I told my story with my beliefs, I was never guaranteed a job by TUC in fact they said I would 'probably' get a job without a course based on my experience. As I said earlier I wanted to do all I could to get me the best chance of being employed, I do think the course improved my chances, nothing more, it certainly does not make you an ROV pilot.

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I know you mean well the problem is many of these guys will take out a bank loan for a course they do not require .

I do mean well and I have only told how it was for me just over a year ago, anyone reading this please make up your own mind, the course wont do you any harm other than costing you money, it WILL give you some insight into what it's all about and it MAY give you an edge over a competitor for a trainee position.

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As you have said you do not know if you would have got the job without the course , But some thing we do know 100% is you don't need to do a course .

Cant disagree with that other than to say as above, it MAY help.

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Times are hard and money is hard to come by and there are so many people out there thinking of all these new a schemes to to get you to part with your money , But so many people get confused with mandatory requirements and just pain guide lines and its this that the schools are cashing in on .

Cheers

Raptor


Well I can only speak of TUC, they were not cashing as you put it when I attended. On the experience day, Paul Bury went through peoples CV's and told 2 of the 8 assembled, the course wasn't for them, they needed to study more first, another guy was told he was borderline etc. If they were cashing in, they wouldn't have done that. When the lady came through to explain the course availability they were booked up for the next 7 months with only 2 positions open, one of which I got. So whilst some schools may be after the cash from anyone, in my experience TUC were not amongst them.

IS
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I think by now the people following this debate may have a better idea of what it takes to land a employment at a Rov trainee level .

As for spending out thousands of pounds on a course in the hope it will give you the edge , It wont ! if it did why is there thousands of people out there still looking !

Lets be very clear about this the only people making money out of this are the training schools and so far I have not see any evidence to support your claim that you got the job because of the course .However we do know that you can get into the Rov industry without any course .

But as James said this debate has been running a very long time all I know as a Superintendent I look at the persons back ground and not that his done a course .

Maybe in the years to come it might become a mandatory requirement but at the moment its not .

Next !


Raptor
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Raptor wrote:

As for spending out thousands of pounds on a course in the hope it will give you the edge , It wont ! if it did why is there thousands of people out there still looking !

BUT as I've said before, if you were confronted with a choice of 2 identical people, experience background etc, one had done a course and one hadn't, which would you choose?

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Lets be very clear about this the only people making money out of this are the training schools and so far I have not see any evidence to support your claim that you got the job because of the course .

I have never made that claim, I do think it helped but definitely not just the course.

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But as James said this debate has been running a very long time all I know as a Superintendent I look at the persons back ground and not that his done a course .

I have nothing to disagree with there, there are also so many people in the game that don't have any relevant experience or know how and bluff their way through, I have had the displeasure of working with some of them on more than one occasion., they shouldn't be let loose at all. The sooner a formal qualification is released, the better.

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Maybe in the years to come it might become a mandatory requirement but at the moment its not .
Next !
Raptor


Agreed.
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Im currently looking to gain a trainee position and although i have some money saved which i could use to attend a course, i wont be doing that. Im a heavy vehicle technician to trade and have 14yrs experience working with mechanical, Hydraulic, Electrical & Pneumatic systems. I believe that if i keep plodding away calling and emailing potential employers then my CV will hopefully cross the path of the right person. I dont think these courses have a look in when it comes to hands on work experience. We have guys at work in my place who have certificates coming out of their ears but couldnt put a nut in a monkeys mouth when it comes down to physicaly doing the job in the workshop. At the end of the day its nice to have certification letting employers know you can grasp the theory but you cant deny that they are more likely to favour someone who has practical skills & knowledge.
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Hi DavieBhoy Welcome to the debate !

Sorry InnerState but like I have all ready said your claim that doing one of these courses helped you get employment .I have not seen any evidence to support this I think the only way to convince you is meeting you up in Aberdeen and show you the inside workings of the HR department .

All the Cvs come in and end up on a hard drive and when projects come up they see who is available ,When there looking for Trainees they look for trades men experienced in hydraulics or electronics .

Now you were happy to spend over £5500 on a course for most people who have a family to support and a mortgage to pay there going to require a bank loan so that's more load on your already stretched income .If the course was a mandatory requirement fine but its not .( Fact )

If you could show me and the others of this forum any evidence to support your claim that doing one of these course gives you a edge then I would accept it , However after being in this industry over 40 + years and one of the people in the employment chain that will see your Cvs I can say 100% its not in any way going to help you find employment lets face facts your first trip as a Trainee your going to be on the winch , Making tea and coffee for the lads , Helping out on Pre and Post dive checks . So it does not matter if you have done a course or not your start at the bottom and your find that your learn more from on job training than any training schools .

For those forum members who are thinking about getting into the Rov industry just do a Survival Course that alone will sent you back about a thousand pounds as for the OGUK Medical just look on this site for the details and costs
Once you have got those 2 certs then you can start applying to all the main line Rov company's , However if you do not have a trade in hydraulics or electronics then please do not waste your time or money.

Well I will let InnerState have the last word on this Topic as its run its course. Until the next time .

Raptor

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