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Should the often called 'economic downturn' card be used as a means for offshore employers to reduce rates or remove uplifts (in dodgy areas) or remove other essential benefits?

When hearing this from your employer (or potential employer) should you, as an individual, be prepared to accept that argument.

The 'economic downturn' card will be used by them as justification to pay you less for the same work you were carrying out the previous year.
James Mc
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Absolutely not James! One asks, where do they get off trying this on us? The oil companies made their giga-profits and still are doing rather well as the biz reports state. Cost cutting to an extent? Maybe, but don't lower the dayrates... As many companies have put a freeze on the dayrates. Slow start of the year? Paranoid marketing managers? Yes. Here we are again in the cyclic doldrums.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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West Africa should, as a minimum be full North sea day rate plus 10% (minimum).

Judging by company profit announcements (based on last year) and the fact the the barrel is still pretty healthy (price wise) I see no reason to accept going to West Africa on normal rates no matter what the office/agency may say.

Companies doing this are just trying it on. SS7 included.
Equally, the agency shouldn't be taking the contract minus the 10% and trying to sell the idea on to their day rate agency people. That's not exactly looking after your people is it!

Also consider this, before you say yes to such a cut.

Is the person asking you to go at that rate taking a similar cut in their pay? I sincerely doubt it.


Last edited by jamesmc on 19:56 Sun 12 Apr 09; edited 1 time in total
James Mc
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galleon wrote:
Yes they are doing this. I already had compass personnel try it on me. Also had subsevepro offer "full north see rates in GBP" for a SS7 job in West Africa, this is about a $200USD pay cut from what I was making in asia...no additional bonus (danger pay, hazard pay, whatever you want to call it). Looks like I'll be making a living doing something else this year.


These agencies should know better. I would personally put the phone down if I was offered a deal like that.

I'm also pretty disgusted that they actually have the temerity to try and get people to go without the uplift.

Has anyone else had a call from an agency trying to drop rates or drop the Africa uplift?

Name the Agencies (but not people by name please).
James Mc
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Just say NO!
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Categorically NOO!

Ask yourself a few wee questions:

Have the ops managers taken a cut in their rate? NO

Has anybody shore side taken a cut in wages? NO

Have divers taken a pay cut? Er, don't think so.

Have the agencies fees increased or their rates cut? See above.

Have my hours been reduced to perhaps eight ? NO


So don't be foolish and fall into the trap.
It doesn't do you, or your fellow work mates any favours.
Rates should be increasing to fall in line with O&G company profits...if only!


Uplifts

Has the the risk of traveling to these countries suddenly dissolved? NO

Uplifts are important, it's not getting any safer out there, let these lapse and, well what's the point in having them ? Shocked
Dodgy areas have been paying up to 30% on top, if you are not getting it then you are being taken for a ride.

Any company or agency that has any respect for the people it 'employs' would not try this on, dimplomatically tell them to 'stick it' and move on.

Companies/Agencies need to be looking at the bigger picture here, otherwise people will move on, things will pick up again and they'll be stuffed!

Think on!


Last edited by T-Boy on 14:38 Mon 13 Apr 09; edited 1 time in total
I was on the kettle!
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I second the above statements. Couple of the larger companies in Asia also trying to get us used to the word "pay cut". Pay cut = threat to my well being therefore zero tolerance stance should be taken. I will simply move on the minute I have something else come along even if it is on shore should this happen, and I think that goes for a lot of the other experienced guys too. PEOPLE HAVE MEMORIES so screw with us now and it will be remembered in the upturn when you looking for bodies to warm those beds. Funny thing is we are always been told things are quiet and lots of systems are in yard but there is never any relief available for you out there. How does that work? For those ashore, don't work false economies. ie. Less pay =less experience + less skills = more F%$# up's + more HSE accidents and higher equipment replacement costs + Angry client who asked you for the discount in the first place.
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I have not seen any inflation drop which to me , means , we are in a worse situation than before Confused
People wanting to " get into the industry " and doing it for free is not helping either !
I agree with Zero viz , They screw us now Evil or Very Mad
We'll screw them later when they desperatley need us Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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Once again, I'll say it... lots of old hands are being told the industry is quiet and they send out inexperienced guys who end up trashing the systems. They end up calling us old farts to fix/repair/rebuild the farqed systems with a couple of trainees - oh joy! Thankless usually...The rates haven't gone up nor have they gone down (for some folks) - but yeah...What about the guy(s) sitting next to you? And yeah, cost-cutting is here where the same sorry companies are saying (with unmitigated gall!) sorry no relief!!! The industry has gone down the toilet!!!! Farqin' orifice wallies and leech agencies!! And most of you know whom I refer to..... And while I'm at it, farq the ROV training schools that won't vet their students for an ROV-related trade prior to enrolment! There, weekly rant done...
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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"there, weekly rant done..."


somehow...i doubt it?
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Rave on!!!!! You Guys must all remember how long it took to get rates to where they are. Erode this base and we all know how long it will take to get them back when things start looking up again. Problem is we will probably only get them back up in time for the next down turn. I work away from home for a better than average salary not because I like living half my life on a roach infested rig/boat.
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UKPS have been 'at it' too.. A mate of mine was quoted a dayrate 50 quid less than I was being paid for the same position. Worse still this means the agency rate was considerably less than the 'staff' rate which also had a 'loyalty bonus' plus pension etc tacked ontop.. 'He was told it was due to 'costcutting'

So who has the most to worry about ?

If the agency is sucessful in recruiting guys for much less than the 'staff' rate surely the staff guys are going to suffer in the longterm..

Maybe the companies are hoping to get a bunch of guys hired for less than the market price and hope they won't tell or find out how much everybody else is being paid ?

Dunno about others but I wouldn't return to a job if I discovered I had been 'lowballed' If I was happy to go to work initially at an agreed rate I'd honour my commitment.. and chalk it up to experience.. BUT I certainly wouldn't return unless the rate was corrected inline with the other crew..

LIke James says if you give in you will drive the rates back down and it will take 'forever' to get them back inline.. My costs aren't going down so why should my pay ? When I see the managers take a paycut I'll be willing to discuss my rate.. But until then not a chance...
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ROV raving whatever...,

The dayrates will go down the toilet if we don't stand up against (some huffy-puffy-chested) management or agencies. Is it the usual attitude of "I'm awright Jack - f_ _ k the rest". If one wants to be abused, feel free to but you won't work with me if I can stop you.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Ditto ! Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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DJansen wrote:


Maybe the companies are hoping to get a bunch of guys hired for less than the market price and hope they won't tell or find out how much everybody else is being paid ?



This is often the case. I know of one agency that states, in the joining instructions, Do not discuss your day rate with others!! If you don't talk with others about your rate you will never know whether you are on a winner or being seen off. Just what they want I would suggest.. I have always discussed my rate with others and survived quite nicely on it.

I will also add.... in 23 years offshore I have never worked for less than the previous years. I never will.


Last edited by jamesmc on 23:04 Tue 14 Apr 09; edited 1 time in total
James Mc
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