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Chaps, whilst it is interesting reading about being in the ROV recruiting business and having learnt the industry in a year Rolling Eyes can I suggest that we resume the original topic....

What I'm after is rates, company names, you know, the kind of dross that we end up chuckling at and having to file under 'B'.

Feel free to post any interesting emails that you receive.

Tnx,
T-B
I was on the kettle!
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Recently heard about a UK agency putting their guy offshore for £100/d less than other agency guys on same job.

Waiting for some feedback from my source who has queried the offending agency for their view, he has not had a response as yet.

This is just one guy, imagine if this is what they are doing with all their workers. Makes you wonder what they are doing with this extra wealth, does it go into the company or is it shared amongst staff as a bonus?!

Is it any wonder agencies are getting bad press? I wonder at what point they will show some respect for the contractor who goes offshore and earns them their income.

Stay safe

Wink
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Hi K2

Yes this is true and its not just one agency there are a few trying it on as well and its not £100 its more ,One agency phoned me up for a job in Italy with a Sea Eye Lynx .One Agency made the offer of $600 USD and the other $650 after a bit of pushing I got the rate up to $700 .

I contacted the company direct and they were happy to pay me $800 . Agency's do not understand the Rov industry is a small world and every body knows each other so we know what the going rate should be .

This is 2014 and the price of oil is $115 a barrel so there is no reason why the rates for experienced Rov personnel should be so low except for the agencies getting greedy .

Raptor
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This will only stop when, Numpties stop accepting low rates.
Until then, this leaves the market wide open for leaches to cream off the top.

It's been happening since the dawn of time to some degree, however new freelancers have made it sooo easy to be creamed, that the opportunists have leapt in, new tin-pot agencies have sprung up etc IMO.

I spend time, 'educating' people offshore as to the pitfalls, in an attempt to help, however as mentioned, it really is down to the individual to be competent in understanding the industry they are in....isn't it?

I wonder if anyone has been receiving any email offers with silly rates recently?
Or, has it ceased?
I was on the kettle!
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If you were wondering why day rates were going down the plug hole just seen this on Linkedin

Hi - I have a former marine, avail now FOR FREE (UNPAID!) ROV PILOT WORK EXPERIENCE with all nec certifications, BOSIET, MIST, Offshore Med, as well as electric, electronic and hydraulic courses.

No wonder the rates are going lower and lower !

Raptor
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You should look at this another way ................... When they [banned word] up , They get a bad name and get blacklisted .......... It also makes you look better when they do [banned word]-up Very Happy
Also put the agency's name on here or Facebook forum so that we know which agencies to steer clear of ...... Then the Agency gets a bad reputation for crap inexperienced so called pilot / technicians and then they lose work or go somewhere else to try and earn a quick buck ! ......... Simples Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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Raptor

$800 direct is very low for a supv but even if it was a sub eng / PT, it is still poor so this job via an agency would always have joke rates.

Trouble is, someone will always accept low rates which doesn't help matters.

Lostboy

Not sure it is worth naming and shaming. Many guys are happy with their rate and are blissfully unaware of what they could earn if they took a more proactive approach. Personally, whilst I enjoy the most part of the job, I am here to earn money. For this reason I make a point of being aware of market conditions and who the better agencies/ companies are. I find it very surprising that so many workers I come across dont seem to care about rates - that is until they get offshore and discover their rate is much lower than their peer but by this stage it is too late. Earlier in the year I came across a PT who was on £60/d more than one of the supv, there was an unpleasant atmosphere there but the supv only has himself to blame. Some people never learn.

Stay safe
Wink
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Yes agreed $800 is still low when you think the GB pound is very strong however its allot more than $600 USD .

I think at the end of the day its down to what people will and wont accept .
Its very clear that in the years to come the demand for experienced personnel will go up and the agency's will still be attempting to hire people at these silly rates this is one more reason why one by one the main stream Rov company's are starting there own rov schools that way they can grow there own . But it does get the guys into the industry unlike most of the schools that take your money and run .

Its a bit like the early seventies divers would work just for there board and keep in the Oceaneering staff house in Dubai all because it was the only way to get experience .

Raptor
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It's hard to see where all this will end.

The ROV market is flooded with agencies and trainees. Yet, on the other hand, you see some elements of the industry suggesting that there is a global shortage of ROV personnel!!

It makes me shudder when I see people offering to work for free!! I wonder if that ex military person (mentioned on Linked-In) expected to work for free when they first joined the forces. I bloody doubt it! So, why do it now??

I do feel that (UK wise) recent HMRC 'false self employment' rules may help shut down a number of new 'in it for a quick buck' agencies that have popped up in the UK over the last few years. I hope so at least.

..... and yes, those agencies screwing people over on day rates should be name and shamed!
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Hi James if your happy with us making a list up then I am sure we can come up with the duff agency's are you sure you want us to make you up a list because your going to get a load of Flak . I know we don't put people names but even with company's you might get threats to remove it .

Raptor
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To my mind I think most of the new 'agencies' or Intermediaries have sprung up because:

a) It's an unmanaged/unregulated industry so it's easy to exploit
b) Generally speaking, newbies don't seem to have an ounce of commercial knowledge in this industry and can't negotiate their way out of a cabin, let alone day rates!
c) Newbies are desperate to get a foothold in the industry - at any cost!
d) Several forecasts, one of which (Douglas-Westwood) reports an 80% ROV industry growth increase over the next 4-5 years
e) Hoards of newbies starting at Freelancing with little or no knowledge

Logically, opportunist, unemployable people, having failed at used car selling, being an estate agent, or working offshore for example would 'chance' starting an agency based on just the factors I can muster.
As an aside - I don't know of a single agency that has management personnel that have actually worked offshore and know the job/tasks/responsibilities involved.
As far as naming names go, I'm not sure if it would be advantageous to mention IV Offshore, Subnetservices, AGRL, and Marris for example? Would it? Wink


My advice for those that may be interested and reading this is; get with a big company.
Do your time, work your way up, get your certs, competencies and training courses completed. After say 10 years of learning a fraction of what there is to learn, then, and only then, look at the freelancing world - once you have an idea of the industry you are working in. Then enjoy.

BTW - Agency ROV Supervisor currently EU non taxable waters £650 (through agency!) scale down from there for PT etc.
Going the other way - £725-850 for a Shift Supervisor/ROV Supt
£800-£1200 for OIM/OCM
£1000 and upwards Client Rep as a guide, depending on the task to some degree also.

Alas, for me, I started at the bottom, and still make tea...but I'm happy and I get paid a good rate per cup Laughing
I was on the kettle!
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Raptor

I reckon you'd have a pretty long list if you name and shame companies and agencies as it seems very few are not ripping guys off.

My source never heard back from the agency with their view regarding their guy being on £100/d less than his peers, this was Atlas.

It would be interesting to hear an agency's point of view on all this.

T-boy

Where do you get those rates from? I come across the occasional good rate but conditions usually suck or it is taxed in some way. Figures you mention seem more applicable to direct working rather than agencies.

Would be good to get the rates table running again but to include agencies too.

Stay safe
Wink
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Sorry K2 you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick yes I do have long lists of agency's but I have no idea which ones are Duff !

However its not you or me that has to deal with the Flak from the agency's once there names are on a list .

However we seem to be getting off topic , But as I have said many times if the company is a known company there is no reason why you cannot work direct . I do fully understand there is the odd one like working for COOEC when you need to provide your own insurance but most you can work direct .

As far as rates go in the middle east it was only a few years ago when Neptune was paying there supervisors $1000 , These days I think its Subtech .

Raptor
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I see no reason not to name and shame those agencies trying to offer totally unreasonable rates. Yes! there will be some flak no doubt, but if a company is named and true/offerred rate quoted then I see no issue with it.

As mentioned earlier, Company names and details yes, no naming of individual persons and all will be OK.

A new thread has just been started for this very purpose as it will have little impact tacked onto this topic.
Please go to: Poor Agency Rates! (Name & Shame Section!)
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We are currently looking for Supervisors with Panther experience for a project in the UAE, duration 6-8 weeks. Mob ASAP.

Day rate is flat, $720.

If you are available and have interest, please send me your up to date CV in word format ASAP.

Kind regards,
Offshore Consultant at Indepth-International


That day rte sure is FLAT, they even tell you that Laughing
I was on the kettle!

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