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My grief is people who THINK they know what they are doing and are willing to go offshore .................... For Nothing to get a job Shocked
This profession is a team effort but not helpful if the whole team is inexperienced !
If the ROV companies have no work.................... Then there is NO work available Evil or Very Mad
Trying to apply for a job through an agency is not helping the Industry as a whole , Not helping the team or helping me Evil or Very Mad
Union member ? Up until a year ago I was a member of the RMT.................... For under a year Shocked Now I'm not a member Shocked
I joined because I'm pissed off with the way the Industry is going the last five years Evil or Very Mad
If becoming a member of a union means kicking out Muppets and closing down Schools or Agencies making money off the backs of others and keeping rates down .............. Then so be it Twisted Evil
Viva Le Revolution !
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
Good luck with that lostboy...

Submerged Recovery & Inspection Services
I hope too Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
This argument will go on for ever. Chief is right in regard to a lot of what he says. The job is only worth what the client will pay and regardless of experience etc there is no point in the company losing money to employ the most experienced person around.

You all want the best day rates offshore as workers so obviously feel the rate is going up.

I do disagree with some of the comments on the thread. A supervisor with five years as a supervisor and a supervisor with 20 years as a supervisor in the clients eyes are still just a supervisor. Why should they pay more. On the same thought line the company has deemed both of these people to be capable so why should they pay one more and reduce profits on a job.

It is easy to sit at a PC and pick faults with day rates but I think there is a bubble offshore which is seperate to the real world. Rates once were fantastic now they are not bad. That is what the offshore industry is like at the moment. It has happened in other industries just as badly. Take computers for example. The profit margin most small computer firms make is very low when building a new system. 10 years ago it was pretty big.

The world is constantly changing and unfortunately we have to constantly adapt.

Until rates are fixed and qualifications/training and experienced are all within that fixed rate there will always be two very polarized sides to this debate

One still sees rates increase for office workers inshore - in ANY industry. Same can be said for just about ANY job or industry inshore... You will not see a 5 yr. employee getting the same as a 20 yr. employee - both doing the same job.... This will not happen, "It's absurd!"
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
You could also mention Postal workers , Dustbinmen , Nurses , Airplane staff , Coalpit workers and Airtraffic controllers ..................... Oh and divers Very Happy
Everyear the Papers say................. " Cost of living will go up Bla Bla Bla for the average household " Shocked
Your insurance Premiums ( If you haven't noticed yet ) will have jumped due to what happened in GOM Shocked
We , in the Oil and Gas Industry, are in a unique area as it "Makes the world go round " and there is Billions of profit every year Confused
We are also in a Industry where there is a "Slight Danger" All the above could argue their point of Dangers I suppose Rolling Eyes
The Postal worker could get mauled by a Rapid Dog on his rounds or get knocked down by a Dustbin man in his truck Confused
The Nurse could get beaten up by a drunk Coal Pit worker or contract some disease Sad . The Dustbin Man could have a Head-on-collision with the Diver who is late for a helecopter check in and the Airtraffic controller could die by the Airplane staff taking over the plane and accidently fly it into the Airtraffic control tower Shocked
The Divers.......... blow bubbles Shocked
Being realistic Everyone gets a payrise ............ except us Sad ( And I'm talking Freelancer with experience I might add )
We get our rates up because ( In the past , being unique and having a small population of Pilots) Demand out-oustretched supply at certain times of the year or drilling and exploration programmes Sanctioned by the governments ( Subject to Coups , Wars , Fammine , Pestilance and.......... Football Cool )
Now that every Tom , Dick and 'Arry thinks this is a wonderful easy quick way of making money , We are FLOODED with wannabees !
Our old way of supply and demand has been F#!ked up !
So how do you think we will be able to get the rates up , Hmmmm ?
Keep in mind , this is what makes the world go round of course and there is STILL BILLIONS of profit , we are going deeper and they need ROV's more than ever ( Not even Bubble Blowers can go that deep Very Happy )
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
There's another view which is also important - global economics...

DJansen said:

It's simple really.. I want more money each year because of 'Inflation'
My cost of living goes up pretty much every year.. So my compensation has to rise as well.. If my cost of living was the same as 10 yrs back I wouldn't need a payrise..

ROV companies increase their hire-out rates if the market will stand it and if it won't they try to reduce costs by cutting into what they have to pay crew..

In the long run it's cheaper to hire experienced and motivated crew.. Getting some 'bodies' in cos they are cheap doesn't say much for a companies commitment to quality or safety'

Padding out the crew with trainees, or pushing guys up the promotion ladder to soon but paying them less than the going rate are all shonky business practices and go completely against the 'nothing is more important than safety and quality' mantra that most companies expouse..

After all which plumbing co would you use ? The one with time served qualified plumbers or the one using cheap wetback labour ?

You pays ya money.. The day your 'trainee' Supv looses your sub the 'expensive' experienced guys dayrate will suddenly look cheap ..

In very recent years the "Empty TMS syndrome" had hit several ROV companies. WHY AND WTF!!!??? Cost-cutting exercises which didn't work out so well - did they? Pay the extra 100 - 200 USD a day and you'll see a lot of systems paying themselves back quickly and making more profit!!! So what if it takes another 6 months to "break-even"!!! Better than an empty TMS anyday!!! Plus the fact that you'll see your fleet aging gracefully (a bit like some of us!)....
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
Viva Le Revolution ! Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !

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