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Any one got the mythical supervisors ticket ?????? I have been in ROVs 8 years now and last 18 months as supervisor with no issues, but recently went to a job and was asked for supervisors ticket , showed them my logs , certs , papers and the company had already asked and received satisfactory references from 3 previous employers ,but the company Seahorse Vietnam want a supervisors ticket ? wasted 3 days going to this job .

I have know dozens of supervisors and none have ever had such a thing , they might have log books and years of competancy certs and records ....... seems some companies want this bit of paper but no one that i spoken to in last 4 days actually knows what it entails or how to get one .


please enlighten me
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It is worrying that you have been doing ROV's for 8 years and yet this cert is mythical?

Try MTCS
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bulb82 wrote:
It is worrying that you have been doing ROV's for 8 years and yet this cert is mythical?

Try MTCS



Thanks Bulb ... yes its worrying that so many more experienced guys than me also dont know about it either ,

strange ..... i was up at MTCS last year to do my HV certificate refresher and the offshore assessors course sponsered by an employer and no one mentioned the Supervisor course , my employer wanted me to do the assessor course as i was mentoring 4 trainees for 3 months as a supervisor in the phillipines .


The other strange thing is why bother to fly me to a job and then decide i dont have the right little bit of paper when they already had me vetted ??
ho hum still got paid for 3 days . crazy people ,
I am already off to another job in china but if it might be worthlooking into next time im in UK
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Seahorse should know better than to ask for some thing like this as a Supervisors cert does not exist .

If it makes you feel any better you can go to your current company and they can issue you with a letter on there letter headed paper and stamped with there IMCA stamp and stating .

As IMCA member we commit ourselves to the IMCA Competence Assurance & Assessment Scheme and herewith certify Mr ********. ********** the Following grade .

SUPERVISOR

I have worked for Seahorse many times and I have never had to show it however at the end of the day its all down to what the client will accept and wont accept , Some now days require a HV cert some require you to keep a log book , However its not a mandatory requirement and that I might add comes straight from IMCA .

Well I hope this answers your question .

Cheers

Raptor
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8 Years really?
Its June 2013.
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deepseacon wrote:
8 Years really?
Its June 2013.


and your point is ???? Very Happy
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There are no such things as a formal qualification/certificate within the ROV industry apart from additional safety courses such as High Voltage, BOISET, etc. and national qualifications issued by various companies education systems.

IMCA are a Trade Organisation who have written up Guidelines - not mandatory nor statutory - companies and training schools can train people based on these guidelines, or they can make up training courses of their own, and then issue a piece of paper stating that Mr X has attended/passed a particular course.

I could print my own course certificate and say I had completed an ROV Supervisors course that I too had made up - it would be as equally as valid.

The ROV industry is not regulated like Divers where you must have specific industry qualifications to do the job.

As I keep having to say - IMCA are a Trade Group, not a regulating body nor legal body, they have published guidelines which people and companies may or may not choose to follow. They do not certify anyone despite what some training schools may try and tell you. Unfortunately some Employers who also do not know any better, have started asking for "Certificates" or certified, as they too have no idea what to ask for.
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Here is a copy from the IMCA Web site regarding FAQ :-

Competence Assurance & Assessment - Frequently Asked Questions


What is a 'suitable' assessor?

To carry out assessments successfully, the assessor will need to be fully familiar with the assessment process. The assessor should be a supervisor or manager with the necessary knowledge and experience to be able to judge the competence being assessed. It is likely that the assessor would have been provided with suitable training on conducting assessments.

IMCA does not currently approve or formally recognise any particular assessor qualification. The type of training given to the assessor is for each member company to determine.

Guidance on assessor training was produced as guidance note IMCA C 007 in December 2000. Its references need updating to reflect changes in UK qualification titles for assessors from 'National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ) D32/33' to the new 'A' units, but otherwise remains valid.
Who should carry out workplace assessments?
Can training establishments carry out assessments?

[b] Training establishments would not be expected to complete the 'Competence Assessment Record' - Part 4 of the IMCA Record of Competence. They should only complete Part 3 - 'Training Record'. However, they can make recommendations and/or supply documentation to assist the contractors in making their assessment.

Its clear that Supervisors and Managers can do assessments and Training establishments cant I wonder why I keep on seeing from ads from the training schools stating that they can .

The whole system is so full of holes .

Cheers

Raptor
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I agree with Ray on this. The industry is not regulated.
Until it is, there will be no such thing as a supervisors ticket. Some of these companies that ask for such things have no clue what they are on about. Some even ask for IMCA Pilot tech grading certificates. Again no such animal exists.

At best schools offer training courses based loosely on IMCA guidelines.
The IMCA does not check on whether schools follow these guidelines nor does the IMCA regulate training establishments in any other way nor issue ROV qualifications.
At best the schools issue 'in house' certificates suggesting that a person has been trained to IMCA guidelines to a certain level. It's basically a guideline to do what best suits IMCA members. After all it was the IMCA that wrote the guidelines.

Anyone, you or I, could start an ROV training school tomorrow. Set it up to follow IMCA guidelines and issue certs suggesting that pilots have been trained to PT II level. The said cert can then be misconstrued as being a grading certificate by future employers and requested as such.

I might add, that the IMCA has no authority in law, nor the right to dictate how the ROV industry should be regulated and, to the best of my knowledge, has not been appointed to do so by any government body.

Please people.. remember. The IMCA stands for International Marine Contractors Association. It is a trade body set up by a bunch of offshore companies and operators, not a government appointed regulator of law such as HSE.

I had an ROV supervisors competency cert issued years back. It had an expiry date on it!! Why I will never know. Obviously it expired years back! I was never asked to produce a supervisors cert once in my whole ROV career.


Last edited by jamesmc on 00:39 Fri 14 Jun 13; edited 1 time in total
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bulb82 wrote:
It is worrying that you have been doing ROV's for 8 years and yet this cert is mythical?

Try MTCS


It's equally as worrying that you seem to indicate it isn't mythical!

There is no IMCA grading Certificate for ROV supervisors.
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Its funny James you and Ray and myself have over a 100 years experience together but how many times have we said the same thing over and over again regarding the guidelines .

I did email IMCA last year regarding log books and even they said the same

Thank you for your enquiry to IMCA.

First of all I shall answer your direct question: IMCA does not make it mandatory that ROV personnel should carry IMCA ROV log books. IMCA as a trade association does not mandate, regulate or control members’ operations. The role of IMCA as a trade association is to offer good practice guidance in the area of competence and training amongst other areas.

That said, IMCA members and their clients are free to make it a requirement that ROV personnel should have an IMCA ROV log book, and many do so, as you have found.

I think at the end of the day if they can sell and they have sold the idea to the oil company's someone is going to make a very large amount of money .

Cheers

Raptor
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jamesmc wrote:
bulb82 wrote:
It is worrying that you have been doing ROV's for 8 years and yet this cert is mythical?

Try MTCS


It's equally as worrying that you seem to indicate it isn't mythical!

There is no IMCA grading Certificate for ROV supervisors.




It might be a worthless bit of paper but you know some clients ask for this! So to be in the game '8' years and not know or to have come across this is pretty shocking.
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yeah but after 8 years of never being asked for such a bit of paper and the company spending a week emailing my previous employers and referees and actually flying me to the job ,2 days hotel , 3 days dayrate and then asking for something that people with many years more in the industry than me think is a waste of time is all a bit farcical dont you think , apparently they have delayed the job to find someone with this bit of paper , costing them god knows how much , a job i could do easily and have done many times before ..........well i will get such a bit of paper made up as raptor and james have expounded and another ex employer will graciously make up for me so thats all sorted as far as i am concerned .

Have you ever been to a trade show and met the IMCA people , I have in southampton and excel and in Singapore , none of them are technical , few even have offshore experience ,but they are onto a good bureaucratic money spinner and they can spout all the management speak like a politician and all good salespeople .......
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What Deepseacon is saying , Liddelljohn , Is that you were asking about getting a job in ROV's Late Summer of 2007 and only started working in late 2007 around October, which , forgive me if my sums are out but that means you have been in the ROV Industry ( At A push ! ) Only 4 and a HALF years
And shot to Supervisor quickly with your enormous amount of experience as a Freelancer !
So , Hence Deepseascans reasoning of your 8 YEARS ! Confused
The Industry is a small place Cool Be careful of your Curriculum Vitae , ............ It might turn round and bite you in the Ass ! Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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[quote="lostboy"]What Deepseacon is saying , Liddelljohn , Is that you were asking about getting a job in ROV's Late Summer of 2007 and only started working in late 2007 around October, which , forgive me if my sums are out but that means you have been in the ROV Industry ( At A push ! ) Only 4 and a HALF years
And shot to Supervisor quickly with your enormous amount of experience as a Freelancer !
So , Hence Deepseascans reasoning of your 8 YEARS ! Confused
The Industry is a small place Cool Be careful of your Curriculum Vitae , ............ It might turn round and bite you in the Ass ! Twisted Evil[/q

your sums are not quite right and i had offshore work non ROV before 2007 But i get your point paul...here is the really crazy part just got a call not 20 minutes ago from seahorse asking if i am still willing to come, so tommorow I am back to vietnam to do the job for 6 days , and no supervisor ticket required ,

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