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Could not believe the rates on recent agency emails, are people really accepting these?

Pilot Tech
Tiger
Shetland
21st June
2-3 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Supervisor
FCV
UK
22nd June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Sealion
Germany
25th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Lynx
Denmark
25th June
3 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Pilot Tech
Panther
UK
26th June
1 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Supervisor
Lynx
Sweden
26th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Lynx
UK
26th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Pilot Tech
FCV
UK
26th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Sealion
Denmark
26th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Pilot Tech
Sealion
UK
26th June
3 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Tiger
UK
27th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Lynx
UK
27th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Lynx/Tiger
UK/Norway
27th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Supervisor
Sealion
UK
27th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Supervisor and Pilot Tech
Sealion
Denmark
28th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350 - £400

Pilot Tech
Tiger
UK
29th June
3 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

3.4u Inspection Engineer
Holland
21st June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£500

Supervisor
Mohican
Holland
21st June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410

Supervisor 3.3
Holland
26th June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410

3.4u Data recorder
Holland
26th June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£480

Supervisor 3.3
Holland
30th June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410

Tooling tech
UK
22nd June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£370

Tooling Tech
UK
19th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£370

Pilot tech
SMD Quantum
UK
25th June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£365

ROV Superintendent
SMD Quantum
UK
25th June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£500

Pilot Tech
Comanche
UK
27th June
2 weeks leading to 4:4 rotation
OPITO & UKOOA
£360

Carousel Tech
UK
ASAP
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Supervisor
Eyeball
UK
22nd June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£360

Supervisor & Sub Eng
Tiger
Norway
30th June
5 weeks
OLF & Norwegian Medical
£310 - £385

Supervisor & Sub Eng
Tiger
Norway
30th July
5 weeks
OLF & Norwegian Medical
£310 - £385

Supervisor
SMD Quantum
Norway
20th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£360

Carousel Tech
UK
22nd June
6:6 Rotations
OPITO & UKOOA
£375

3.4u Inspection Engineer
UK
31st June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£460

Pilot Tech
Tiger
Holland
28th June
2 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410

Supervisor &
Pilot Tech
Tiger
Holland
11th July
5 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410 - £470

Supervisor &
Pilot Tech
Tiger
Holland
4th July
5 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£410 - £470

Snr Pilot tech
Workclass
Baku
26th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£377

Snr Pilot Tech
Workclass
Norway
27th June
5 weeks
OLF & Norwegian Medical
£377

Snr Pilot Tech
Workclass
Norway
4th July
5 weeks
OLF & Norwegian Medical
£377


USA / Caribbean



Australia/Asia

Carousel Tech
Australia
ASAP
5 week rotational
OPITO & UKOOA
MUA rates apply

Pilot Tech
SMD Plough
Far East
28th June
6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380

Supervisor & Pilot Tech
FCV
Malaysia
24th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380 - £475

Supervisor & Pilot Tech
FCV
Indonesia
August
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380 - £475

Supervisor & Pilot Tech
FCV
Indonesia
ASAP
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380 - £475

Supervisor & Pilot Tech
FCV
China
30th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380 - £475

Supervisor & Pilot Tech
Sealion
Vietnam
24th June
4 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£380 - £475

Snr Pilot Tech
Workclass
China
5th July
5 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£377

Snr Pilot Tech
Workclass
China
12th July
5 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£377



Rest of the world

Pilot Tech
Sealion & Panther
Qatar
19th June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Pilot Tech
Sealion & Panther
Qatar
19th June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

ROV Superintendent
Sealion
Saudi Arabia
22nd June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£450

Supervisor
Sealion
Saudi Arabia
22nd June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Pilot Tech
Sealion
Saudi Arabia
22nd June
4-6 weeks
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

Supervisor
Tiger
Mozambique
1st July
1 week
OPITO & UKOOA
£400

Pilot Tech
Tiger
Mozambique
1st July
1 week
OPITO & UKOOA
£350

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amazing, it's like going back a few years!

Stay Safe

K2
Quote
...er, quite a few years!
Rolling Eyes

I'm sure that these are just starting figures and a basis to start negotiating up from Idea

They certainly bear no resemblance to the current going rates from most agencies and also are not in line with rates at this time of the year.

Certainly one way to deter people!
Evil or Very Mad

Adios amigo...
I was on the kettle!
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Your Spot On K2 the rates are Crap ! 4 - 5 years out of date !

Well I have been saying the same things for months ! Most of it is Fugro but all the agencys chasing the same personnel also its peak season and most people are all ready out .

All they have to do is up the day rates and they would not have this problems finding people .

We are not talking about a few bucks here we are talking about $150 less than some companys are paying .

As we seem to be seeing on the forum the same ads for the same jobs
Urgent ! Urgent ! Sea eye , SMD , Perry , Sealion , FCV and Innovator .

Pay the going rates and your find the personnel ! Dont pay and all we are are going to see for the coming months and years are the same ads .

PAY UP !

Raptor
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Well lots of Fugro contracts in there.

Fugro ABZ and Fugro ME and Fugro SG.


Sonsub adds are quiter than normal for this time of year.

Loads of adds for that Toisa Warrior and vessels working in and around those East Anglia & south east coast wind farms.
Quote
So if these aren't good going rates then what are ? I'm just stepping out from a regular job into agency work and don't want to be undervaluing myself Very Happy
All of these are more than my rate with OI.
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As an agency, I don't normally post on ROV world but given that the list of jobs above was sent out by us I feel I should comment.

At the moment there is no hiding from the fact that the industry is very busy and demand is by far outstripping supply. For this reason, increasing the dayrates will not suddenly increase the number of people that are available. True the rates are not as good as many others are offering. However, if these companies increase their rates to fill the gaps, the gaps will only be created elsewhere. We are seeing a large number of guys moving across from staff to agency but that again creates a gap that needs plugging.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for day rates to be increased, why wouldn't I? We are all in the business to make money and I can only speak for our team but we will always try to get the best rate for the contractor. If the money is the deal breaker then surely with the market place being the way it is then better options will present themselves within a short period. Until that point, why wouldn’t we ask if a contractor is interested? It isn’t our decision to omit someone from a search because we don’t think they would be interested.

I’m not trying to be controversial in any way but the rates are as much of a headache to the agencies as they are to the contractor. We have over 100 “live” jobs at the moment and would like nothing more than to have the guys available to help fill the slots. If you see a job that fits your availability, background and location, give us a shout and we will see what we can get for you. There’s no harm in us asking the question.
Quote
Bitching about UK rates anyone?

On the other side of the planet the solution is already in place.

Quote:
Australia/Asia

Carousel Tech
Australia
ASAP
5 week rotational
OPITO & UKOOA
MUA rates apply


MUA rates apply? A similar mechanism should have been in place in the UK sector years ago. The rates would likely have bled through to the rest of the world then. Offshore, Oz divers, Oz ROV and UK divers all benefit from a rates control mechanism. UK ROV peeps are being seen off year after year and they seem to revel in it Wink BTW UK divers in Sat are now on around GBP1350/day. Using my rather dodgy memory I would suggest that rate has almost doubled since 1990.

As long as UK ROV personnel remain an incohesive bunch of individuals they will simply have to suck it up and shut up when it comes to accepting whatever market thinks it can get away with.

I note that the posted CSWIP 3.4u rates are about GBP 50-90/day lower than FSSL are currently paying agency personnel out of Aberdeen.

I'm out of touch with PT/Sup rates but they do seem to be a few years old at best!

The price of Oil is way up per barrel. The Offshore industry is extremely busy and yet North Sea ROV rates are stagnant! Not hard to figure out who is being seen off in that scenario.

Good luck!
Quote
DaHumph wrote:
As an agency, I don't normally post on ROV world but given that the list of jobs above was sent out by us I feel I should comment.



Thanks for your balanced feedback on an agency perspective.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up
Quote
DaHumph wrote:

At the moment there is no hiding from the fact that the industry is very busy and demand is by far outstripping supply. For this reason, increasing the dayrates will not suddenly increase the number of people that are available. True the rates are not as good as many others are offering. However, if these companies increase their rates to fill the gaps, the gaps will only be created elsewhere. We are seeing a large number of guys moving across from staff to agency but that again creates a gap that needs plugging.


But the laws of supply and demand should say that when demand is high, rates increase. Why are ROV rates constantly NOT increasing when other jobs are?

Company A has no interest in gaps appearing in Company B's personnel if it means people will fill the gaps in their demand. "We can't get enough people" I hear Company A cry - pay more than Company B and you will!

I do not blame Agencies for posting job ads - it is interesting to see that an almost identical advert to the one above was posted on here - minus all the dayrates. If, as you say, you would not not advertise a job in case someone might take it, then advertise it with the offered dayrate.

Also, Agencies do need to start going back to Clients and saying people will not work for these rates and they need to join the real world.

Of course the other problem is that Employee A who may be being paid £400 a day to supervise a system is costing Company A maybe £520 a day because they also have to pay the Agencies cut. Some Agencies charge a rather large overhead.
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Hi Ray.

I take your point on supply and demand. However, in most instances the company will have tendered for the business some time ago and will have written in a line for labour costs. They would expect that labour to be made up of (in the main) staff guys. Therefore, when the need arises to use agency personnel they have to remain within budget. The need for the client company to increase the labour cost would come at the point of Tender. That would therefore take time to filter back through to the guys on the front line.

This,in itself doesn't, completely explain the stagnant rates and compared to other sectors they are low. What is interesting is that the rates often quoted in the forums are for guys that work directly and not via an agency so they will always be higher. Some guys like the fact that the agency is taking all the risk on invoicing and they get paid on a set pay run regardless of if the invoice has been paid or not. In addition they don't have to meet the costs of insurance and other costs associated with working offshore. It's a service that works for some but not for all.

The figures you quote may be in line with some agencies but I can assure you that isn't the case with us as we are significantly lower. Therefore if the client company has a budget of £500 per day more is made available to the contractor. Once again, the rates are as much of a headache to us as they are to you.

We get criticised for not advertising the rates and then some feel the need to criticise when we do. If some are interested in what's advertised then so be it. If you are not then tell us and we will chase the rate you are after.

We can all be in this together or we can butt heads. I know where I would like to be.

Once again, I'm not looking to court controversy I just wanted to clarify our position.

Thanks for the feedback.
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DaHumph

I was out on a job recently and dealt direct with the client. He wanted a tech to join the team and was offering £450 per day and put this to several agencies. Your agency contacted the guy who eventually came on the job and offered him £370. Since your agency would have already taken their cut, what would have happened to the other £80/ day? Why did your agency not offer the guy the rate the client was willing to pay? I hasten to add, your agency is not the only one doing this.

At the end of the day if there's a need for personnel then it's a case of the company paying for good guys/ gals or getting sub-standard personnel or even going under manned. As for contracts already being agreed, I have seen, more than once, companies paying for guys out of their own pocket to ensure they get good competent personnel, it saves them in the long run and next time they plan more cautiously.

K2
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@K2,

I think that it obvious from your OP that some agencies take a significantly higher percentage cut than others.

As agencies are pretty much touting for the same work, one only has to phone around each agency to get the desired day rate.
Many seem to stay out of the 'bun fight' Rumic, HPR, Compass, as they have their core business/clients pretty much ticking over in the background I guess?

Interestingly, some of the 'new kids on the block' e.g IV energy, etpm, AGR to name but a few, are offering significantly better rates for exactly the same job.
So you takes yur choice.
I was on the kettle!
Quote
DaHumph wrote:
...

We get criticised for not advertising the rates and then some feel the need to criticise when we do. If some are interested in what's advertised then so be it. If you are not then tell us and we will chase the rate you are after....


I think it's a good thing that the you have made your rates available (albeit in a place other than than the ROVworld forum) as it does show people at the outset what is on offer.
There have been a fair few times in the past I have called to check on a job only to find the rate is too low and subsequently having to run the job down. It's a waste of both parties time.
At least if DaHumph's agency get a call they know already that the person calling knows the rates and is still interested. Not so much time wasting in that scenario.

I'm not sure I wear the client bids for projects based on salary staff with low agency content thus they cannot afford to offer decent rates for agency personnel. The fault lies with their bidding process and should not end up as an attempt to undermine agency rates to increase profits.
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Hi K2,

We are aware that some contractors have been sent out on day rates that are lower than the company is prepared to pay. If the contractor you refer to wasn't happy with the rate offered then it should be addressed at the point of booking and we will then do our best to get the rate increased. In all cases the client will not tell us what their maximum is as they are still looking to make the project as profitable as possible.

We had a similar situation recently where we booked a guy on £380 per day and during the trip we discovered that there was more available so we went back to the client and negotiated another £55.

I don't want to comment on the practices of other agencies or speculate on their rates but we all provide a similar service. Some pay monthly, some don't provide the insurances and some only pay on a paye basis. This often results in different day rates to the contractor but the same invoice rate to the client.

What remains the same is that all agencies will be suffering from a "shortage" of guys.

I am happy to speak to anyone about work and their requirements if we can then facilitate this we will do so. The contractor is our client as much as the company. At the end of the day, if we look after the contractor then we have a chance of forming a loyal working relationship. I urge anyone to call us and let us know what you want.
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Here's one I received today from G2recruitment to add to the list.

Quote:
ROV Pilot - Norway - 4 Weeks.
I am looking for 3 Pilots to begin work on travel on Tuesday 31st July for a 4 week construction and survey project, oil and gas using XLS
Candidates must have all certificates and non EU citizens must have valid Schengen Visa.
Location: Norway
Duration: 4 weeks
Rate: £300-350/day
Start: Immediate


300-350 a day, construction work in Norway ???
I could have made more than that staying at OI and have at least health care and a not bad bonus.
I replied asking if these rates were for real....no reply

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