More Newbie advice???

Member Joined: Jan 17, 2011

Hi Folks,

I;ve had a good read through the forum and havent found although I think I can forsee the answers I'm to get.

Bascilly Im looking at doing the Premium Rov course in the underwater centre.

I have no formal training in engineering or hydraulics. (I did gcse electronics) but dont think that would be much help.

I know that without any off the above it will be hard so just looking to find out if the premium course really would make a difference to potential employers?

Any feed back appriciated, again sorry if this has been answered in previous posts.

Member Joined: Aug 28, 2004

Please ! Please !
Its not going to help you do any type of Rov course at the moment due to the fact there is very little work on offer .

There are many guys on this forum with 10 years plus experience who having problems finding work so a trainee as very little chance of getting in .

Doing a course and getting a Rov cert means nothing ! I know this is not what you want to hear and there is nothing we can say to stop you from doing a Rov course .

But at the moment its a total waste of money .Things may get better in a few years time but at the moment keep with what ever your doing and wait .As for potential employers they could not care less if work comes up they will send you away and do what ever course is required . Same goes for all the other certs your going to need .

Good Luck

Subman

careerchange wrote:

I have no formal training in engineering or hydraulics. (I did gcse electronics) but dont think that would be much help.

You are right. It won't be of much help.
Unless you have the trade background to back up the 'introduction' to Electric ROV's that these courses offer I would advise against spending yours, or the banks, money on any ROV course, so called Premium or otherwise.

You'll end up as one of a multitude of Fort William produced Seaeye Falcon trainees, all of whom will be chasing the same kind of work with all having been trained on but one type of Brushless DC thruster Electric ROV system.

From http://www.theunderwatercentre.co.uk

Quote:

Premium ROV Course (7 weeks)
Ideal for candidates with, or without, electronics qualifications, the seven week course combines all of the skills and training contained in the three week ROV Pilot Technician Course along with extensive training in electronic circuit design, test and measurement, fault diagnosis and repair.

See... not a jot about Hydraulics, so what use is that?

I feel the so called 'Premium' course means bugger all in this game. It just another way of packaging an ROV trainee course to sell to non technical unsuspecting punters in a way that might think they are getting something special.

Why they should need to tout a Premium course in the first place beats me. Especially when there is every indication that it's lacking in mechanical/hydraulic content.

They'll be offering gold and platinum courses next!

All that aside, judging by the course content they'll be flooding the market with people that have no inkling of hydraulics and the other mechanical systems employed in light and heavy work class ROV systems. Hardly what I would call premium ROV training.

Member Joined: Jan 31, 2006

Hmmm........Premium........More sales hype

Member Joined: Jan 17, 2011

Cheers for the input, its looking like a huge risk at the mo. I was thinking that any College would paint up the prospects. It's a huge investvestment they'd be getting for a course.

I might try and get the degree under the belt in the time being and hopefully things will pick up by the time it's done as I would love to work in this industry.

Without sounding smart (I'm not taking the pi55) just trying to get a clear picture of the industry.

Is the work not out there or have the wages dropped because there's more rov pilots around?

Member Joined: Aug 28, 2004

Hi careerchange

I spoke with a guy today who did a Subnet rov course and his not been able to get a job since he did the course and this was 14 months ago .

Please Dont waste your money ! The Schools are still turning people out at a few hundred a month the market is flooded with tranees like your self .
Just read on this forum how many trainees asking for help to get there first job .

Things may change in a few years but until then pick some other job .

Subman

Member Joined: Apr 04, 2006

Everyone who has said do not do that is right. You are looking at spending circa £10000 for a premium course which with your background is not going to help you.

Spend the money and get a HNC in electronics or Hydraulics. Then apply straight to companies some of who will just send you to Fort William anyway.

I have just been pricing up some of these courses this year and was shocked at how much some of the companies charge.

You could even spend 5k on training to be a domestic electrician at least that way you can be earning decent money whilst you do your HNC.

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

luckyjim37 wrote:

Everyone who has said do not do that is right. You are looking at spending circa £10000 for a premium course which with your background is not going to help you.

Spend the money and get a HNC in electronics or Hydraulics. Then apply straight to companies some of who will just send you to Fort William anyway.

I have just been pricing up some of these courses this year and was shocked at how much some of the companies charge.

You could even spend 5k on training to be a domestic electrician at least that way you can be earning decent money whilst you do your HNC.

Good advice Jim! I do hope more operators (companies) start their own ROV training programs.... It will serve their own interests much more than a 3rd party business .... errrm .... school would.

Member Joined: Apr 04, 2006

I personally think that the idea of external training might not be such a bad thing as oppossed to individual companies running seperate schemes. I think though that what is needed is more regulation for the schools than what there is so there is a much more consistant standard at the end.

Kind of like sending an apprentice off to college for day release to get his HNC. It would not matter which college he went to the level of training should be the same.
The obvious difference and I will not name the centres publically. I had to get three quotes this week to get my one and only tech onto the competence scheme. Centre 1 four week course quoted in dollars around 7500.
Centre two three week course circa 5000 pounds.
Centre three two week course circa 4000 pounds including all travel and accom. Obviously I went for centre three. I lost my tech for less time and save a bit to for the same piece of paper. Differences between the courses are massive. After price the thing that really attracted me to the third centre was they did not dwell on flying. As they pointed out flying an eyeball in a quarry/lake is not the best training for a work class ROV off shore in strong currents and poor vis. Also the tech has some flying hours so he would not greatly benefit from this type of training.
I need a workclass pilot not an eyeball one. I need a guy who can deal with hydraulics not just electrics. What we as an industry need is regulated training centres affiliated to formal examining bodies like most other proffesional trades have.

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

Yes Jim I agree with about 95% of what you say above. I'm still old school and would prefer ROV training in-house and at the "particular" vehicle the candidate would be working with onsite at the manufacturers factory. This is sounding like another thread in progress in which folks are fed up with adhoc / arbitrary "rules" are thrown at our industry and at our expense ... see this thread http://www.rovworld.com/ftopic-4145-days0-orderasc-30.html

Member Joined: Feb 16, 2008

Flying an eyeball in a quarry/lake doesn't make you an eyeball pilot. Think you'll find that the eyeball has a lot to contend with in a strong current / tide with the sail affect and no auto's.
That's like saying flying any type ROV on a simulator will make you an ROV pilot.
If that's what the school has told you that you have enrolled on, sounds like a sales pitch and waffle. They'll most likely tell you an eyeball will fly in a straight line in a strong cross current, as most of them have never used an ROV in an offshore working environment.
It sounds more like it's too much of an outlay to purchase the vehicle.

These schools are all induction courses nothing more !!!!

How much can you learn in a couple of weeks that take a college a year + not a lot i'd say!!!

Member Joined: Apr 04, 2006

Scott, I fully agree there has to be system specific training which should be run in house but if we are expected to hold IMCA certs by clients then they should be all worth the same. If a client asks for two pilots techs and a supervisor all with the correct cerification then he should be able to know exactly what standard of training those personnel have had.

It is all very wishywashy at the moment with various schools and in house systems and no real formal qualification or standard in place.
This is exactly the kind of thing that IROVA could and should actively address when it is fully running.

BT I was not insinuating that after a three week course with an eyeball you are an eyeball pilot. The point the training school made to me was my tech will for the next couple of years only fly one or two workclass vehicles. When it comes to pilot training he should do that side of the training on the vehicle he uses which is a completely different beast to an Apache or a Falcon. As opposed to another centre which puts a lot of time into flying a specific small vehicle vehicle.

Member Joined: Jun 05, 2004

And ............. After five years ( That's 2 1/2 actual years working ) he or she can then be classed as a non trainee Cool

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

luckyjim37 wrote:

Scott, I fully agree there has to be system specific training which should be run in house but if we are expected to hold IMCA certs by clients then they should be all worth the same. If a client asks for two pilots techs and a supervisor all with the correct cerification then he should be able to know exactly what standard of training those personnel have had.

It is all very wishywashy at the moment with various schools and in house systems and no real formal qualification or standard in place.
This is exactly the kind of thing that IROVA could and should actively address when it is fully running.

BT I was not insinuating that after a three week course with an eyeball you are an eyeball pilot. The point the training school made to me was my tech will for the next couple of years only fly one or two workclass vehicles. When it comes to pilot training he should do that side of the training on the vehicle he uses which is a completely different beast to an Apache or a Falcon. As opposed to another centre which puts a lot of time into flying a specific small vehicle vehicle.

Yes, agreed again... The IROVA folks should indeed actively address the training issues whether they be ROV or safety. IROVA please note. The poor guys are getting suckered in every other day with some of these schools and courses. There's got to be some sort of controlling body or watchdog body to regulate this sort of business.

On the point of certs for ROV personnel... Why not have the manufacturers train the guys on the particular vehicles that the company (operator) owns and give them certs at the factory upon completion. This would be so much more efficient I would think and would serve the operator more safely than any generic course.

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

lostboy wrote:

And ............. After five years ( That's 2 1/2 actual years working ) he or she can then be classed as a non trainee Cool

Lost,

Realistically.... depending on how much training the company (operator) gives the trainee (incl. factory training) I reckon 6 to 12 working months would be more than sufficient for training a fellow / lass THAT ALREADY HAS HAD FORMAL training in one of the ROV disciplines.