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Innovator05.
Thank you for your input on this matter.

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Safety is the responsibility of the Duty Holder (or Operator) for the Work site.

So Duty Holders make you sit through a long induction to make themselves feel that they can trust you to be safe when you first arrive at their Work site.

If you are a contractor bouncing from place to place these inductions soon get tedious.


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MIST is supposed to cover the common ground of these inductions, so that the Work site specific inductions can be shorter and therefore hopefully better understood (and less tedious), while still giving the Duty Holder confidence that you can work safely.


I agree that site specific safety measures must be highlighted on a safety induction.These inductions are very important in our industry and the content of the induction should be at the operators discretion.

The content is site specific and therefore cannot be handled with a blanket prior safety course and no matter what happens these inductions should and will continue as the companies or operators have a duty of care for its workers on their site.

If the above scenario is correct then the content of MIST has no bearing in these inductions as they are site specific and it would be impossible to include all the site specific material in Mist which brings me to the conclusion that MIST was created for reasons other than work place safety inductions.

Having read and understood the content of MIST I can find nothing in its content that has not already been covered and duplicated in existing safety certificates which everyone, except newbies ,will have a bagful.

The industry standard is that all personnel before proceeding offshore to a work place must have a current offshore medical and a current offshore survival certificate renewable at 2years and 4years respectfully.

These certificates fully cover the general safety aspects of working offshore and the content of MIST should be contained within them and if not then these course certificates become invalidated as they no longer cover the general safety aspects of offshore working.

If MIST is contained within them then everything is still as it stands and MIST is just a duplication of content and should not be a requirement.

If MIST is an update of the OPITO offshore survival certificate then it follows that it should be treated as such and should be incorporated within the survival certificate and workers updated as and when they come up for renewal at no further cost.

If duty holders do not have the feeling that they can trust their workers to work safely then it follows that the existing certification becomes invalidated and a major overhaul is required, however, if duty holders feel that they can trust the existing certification the there is no requirement for MIST as it adds nothing to the existing certification.

All of the above leads me to the conclusion that MIST has been created as a business tool with which to extract money from offshore workers and as others have said it will be updated every time all of us have it and we will be charged yet again.

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MIST was developed in consultation with many Operators and Contractors Representatives.

It is the Duty Holder that decides if they want people to have MIST before they let them on their site, not OPITO, or the Government, or the WRI.


Were any workers representatives included in the development of MIST and if not why not?

Thinking of all of the above in relation to content then I can find no reason why offshore duty holders should require MIST ( unless of course somewhere along the line I have MIST some blatantly obvious reason for duty holders to make us pay for something that we already have. )

I again ask that any duty holders or OPITO people looking in could enlighten us as to why we should not conclude that this is yet another money making scheme off our backs.


Last edited by tc1 on 15:49 Fri 03 Dec 10; edited 1 time in total
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It's all very irksome the way this safety "industry" is growing at the expense of common sense and the pocket of the offshore worker.

Even though OPITO BOSIETS are rated at 4 year renewal, here in Oz we have to attend them every 3 years. The syllabus remains unchanged over the years (focussed on HUET, sea survival and fire fighting and no legislation unlike the UK/Norway) and the price continues to increase well above the CPI.

It's also very annoying (to me at least) that every oil company, drilling contractor, ROV operator, construction company etc all have their own safety training and observation program which all do exactly the same thing but must be taught again and again if you are changing between locations/operators. I am sure that all of these companies or IMCA for example could get together and unify all of these schemes fairly easily but don't.
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Just a bit of clarification.

On a number of sites on reading who requires MIST I find that many of them say it is required for both inexperienced and experienced people who work offshore.

As well as my previous posting on the subject of MIST I wish to quote the following from the originator of this money spinner OPITO.


Quote:
The OPITO Offshore Oil & Gas Industry “Minimum Industry Safety Training” (MIST) is highly
recommended for all inexperienced employees
Quote:
SECTION A TRAINING PROGRAMME
A.1 Target Group
This introductory safety training programme is designed to introduce the
fundamental safety elements of the offshore oil & gas industry to new starts,
giving an appreciation of the potential hazards and controls that might be
encountered by personnel offshore. Each unit has been designed to focus the
delegates’ attention on their personal responsibility for safety thus influencing
their behaviour and attitude towards their coworkers,
the installation and the
environment.[/
quote]


I have also read that some sites state that this training is renewable on a four yearly basis.


I think that people offering this course are not satisfied with the recommended target and wish to include experienced people too by linking it to the VANTAGE card.


If it is the inexperienced that it is targeted towards why must it be renewed after four years or does four years offshore deem us to become inexperienced from being experienced.

Yet another reason why I think this course is just a money spinner.
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Sticking to the ROV theme of this site and how MIST has come about without the ROV industry even being consulted on the matter.
This is not a plug for the IROVA concept, but surely many can see the logic of how such a body might have saved us from this MIST confusion from the outset.

I mean...
Does MIST apply to those working on boats? As we know much of the ROV systems operate from ships.
Do ships crew working in the UK Oil and Gas sector have to take the MIST exam?
If it applies to only ROV/Project crew on ships and not Marine crew, why?
Nobody on the ROV side really knows do they?
Yet, if there had been prior consultation all this could possibly have been hammered out before hand and we'd all know what they hell was going on.

I believe the reason offshore ROV workers are hammered by this kind of stuff is because there is no representative body for the ROV side of the industry. The Employers and Operators are well represented through their own self developed initiatives. They are in an enviable position as they can develop and implement whatever they wish without the need to consult those that it effects most!

The Offshore ROV workers in our industry, though lack of whatever, are clearly not represented.

This poor state of affairs leads to no possibility of prior consultation by Employers or Operators before such programs are implemented. It's not their fault that they are not consulting people that work offshore though. It's simply because they have no representative ROV body to consult with.

There will be more of these so called 'safety initiatives' coming along in the future no doubt, and yet there will still be nothing our side of the industry will be able to do about it, except moan a bit on websites like this, cough up and pay.

It is indeed a sad affair that as confusing as this MIST thing appears to be, (with regards to implementation, costs, to whom it applies and whether there is any legal or actual requirement for it or not on boats) nobody can do a thing about it other than take the medicine as it's dished out, whether they perceive it's needed or not!

A mentioned earlier at around £75.00 a pop, some 'body' or 'organisation' will initially rake in almost £2million in revenue from this at the outset.. let alone the ongoing revenue over the coming years. Somebody must be rubbing their hands with glee!

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There are approximately 25,000 workers in the UK North sea sector.
If each takes a test the total MIST revenue will be........

£1,875,000 (One Million Eight hundred and seventy five thousand pounds)


It does seem that, over the years, a culture has been built up where nobody should be seen to question anything that has the word 'safety' incorporated into its missives. Yet, as there is a cost per person associated with MIST nobody should question that either. It does appear that because MIST a so termed 'safety initiative', how dare any body question the cost. That needs to be addressed too.

I wonder how quickly this MIST thing would have been rushed through if it were down to the Operators to pay?

Will it improve safety offshore? I doubt it.

What's next? MUST?

Must Undergo (even more)Superfluous Training


I guess we can talk about this until the cows come home, but who will actually do anything about it? Until there is a representative body for ROV, debates like this will continue to be nothing more that hot air!
James Mc
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www.rovworld.com

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James

I agree with you in its entirety and I also am not posting on this issue as a push towards IROVA.

My reasons are that in 38 years of diving and ROV work and having won five uk national awards for commitment to health and safety at work in my time,it really grates on me that time and time again we are being shafted by money makers.

I actually now think of them as being parasitical on the bodies of men who really make this industry work including ourselves, divers,riggers,drillers,painters etc etc.

When you read some of the backgrounds of the people who push these money spinners forward you wonder what some of them have got to do with offshore.


We most definately need representation and I can assure you all that our particular part of the industry will have a chance early next year in building the IROVA then maybe just maybe we will be able to have a bit of say on these matters.
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Who needs MIST. Judging by some responses around here... none of us do!.. but....

From what I can gather.

If you fly on choppers a lot and work on rigs/platforms then you'll probably be asked for a MIST cert.

If you step on and off boats and fly on the occasional chopper then it's not worth going for.

All of the above appears to be limited to the UK sector, so if you work outwith the UK sector MIST is again probably not worth having.

Sadly, what I can see is the bulk of the companies and agencies insisting that you need a valid MIST cert whether it is perceived you need one or not.
James Mc
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The crux of the information below is just in from an undisclosed source (and I'd rather keep it that way) so no guessing games please as there is simply no mileage in it.

It appears that:

  • MIST is gaining a little more momentum.
  • Bluewater, the vessel operator, are now stating that all contractors must have MIST training.
  • Clients are saying that the requirement for MIST is very specific to the owner of the installation or vessel.


If you ask for clarification from Opito they will refer you to the following website/link:
http://www.oilandgas4u.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=96&Itemid=1

If you open the above link it still does not say MIST is a 'must have' however, no one seems to be able to give the definite answer.
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This MIST thing will need a refresher every four years. So does BOSIET.
It's not hard to see what the solution might be here.

On the oilandgas4u.com website it says:
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Benefits to you - be confident that:

* Your co-workers share a standardised level of safety training and awareness
* Your industry is committed to making the UK the safest place to work in the worldwide oil and gas industry.
* You minimise duplicate and repetitive safety training


Does it appear that BOSIET isn't doing it's job then?
If MIST isn't 'duplicate and repetitive training' I have to ask what is!!

I keep wondering why the obvious course of action has not been taken in that if MIST (and whatever is in MIST, and may be missing from current BOSIET) is not simply included into the BOSIET as extra content, which has a four year refresher anyway, rather than creating yet another course that also has to be renewed every four years!

It’s another case of no industry body representing our interests, so therefore no discussion with anyone before implementation.

After MIST what's to stop yet another safety course coming along in a couple of years as another requirement to work offshore?? Simple answer=Nothing!!

This isn't government legislation by the way... which I guess is why nobody can say whom the driving force behind it is.

I guess every Tom Dick and Harry company are all jumping onboard to cover themselves yet they should be asking why this is not already part of BOSIET in the first instance!
James Mc
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James,
I also received the update and have replied to it.

The biggest point of all is that OPITO conjured this MIST thing up and if you look at their website ,( not any of the clingon training establishments ) , It is clear to read that OPITO produced this for newcomers only and NOT experienced people who Im sure OPITO would be happy to exclude from this nonsense.

It is when you look at training establishments ,that you find the discrepency, in so much as they are including experienced people in this for one simple straight forward reason......Not enough to be made from newcomers so lets link it to vantage and stuff everyone.

I wish we were up and running as I for one would really like to get to the bottom of this and find out who was the person who decided to change the originators ( OPITO ) targeted people for this nonsensical course.
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In the absence of any ROV association I may write to OPITO to see what they have to say for themselves. Whether they reply or not is another matter. What I might also do is create a standard letter and post it in this forum so that it can be copied/pasted and sent to whomever it may have most impact with.
James Mc
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James,
I have tried writing already with no response.

This is a link to the original idea.

http://www.opito.com/uk/library/IMIST_Rev_0__24_Nov_2010.pdf

Please note the targeted people.
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Well as we know the online MIST course is about £70 at www.petrolearn.com
thats for experienced personnel .

But if your just starting out the 2 day MIST course at Petans Norwich is £360 even the European Refresher course which is just 1 day is £540 .

The refresher has got shorter as it was just 3 days but the price seems to has gone up what next I wonder ?

Sad

Subman
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Here is a link to a new IMIST safety course.

http://www.opito.com/uk/library/IMIST_Rev_0__24_Nov_2010.pdf

Not happy with money from uk sector they are now trying to implement a new International course.

On reading workforce attendance and imput the section was marked N/A .It now seems that workforce people are not applicable to meetings and consultations going on about us.We are merely the cash cows.
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Regardless of what any training establishment says,the following are direct quotes from OPITO themselves.....

MIST.....Targeted people.
SECTION A TRAINING PROGRAMME
A.1 Target Group
This introductory safety training programme is designed to introduce the
fundamental safety elements of the offshore oil & gas industry to new starts,giving an appreciation of the potential hazards and controls that might be
encountered by personnel offshore. Each unit has been designed to focus the
delegates’ attention on their personal responsibility for safety thus influencing
their behaviour and attitude towards their coworkers,
the installation and the
environment.

Experienced people are not targeted here.


IMIST...........Targeted people.......

A.1
Target Group
This introductory safety training programme is designed to introduce the fundamental safety elements of the oil & gas industry to new starts, giving an appreciation of the potential hazards and controls that might be encountered by personnel. Each unit has been designed to focus the delegates’ attention on their personal responsibility for safety thus influencing their behaviour and attitude towards their co-workers, the installation and the environment.

Experienced people not targeted here either.


No amendments to either of these courses refer to experienced people.

You can only find references to experienced people in training establishment bumf.

I am now trying to find where and why these courses are linked to vantage because OPITO does not link them.
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The old posts below have been removed from another thread on MIST and tacked onto this one. The old thread has been deleted.

Posted: 09:49 Fri 30th Jan 2009
kevnewby wrote:
Hi guys,

I am doing my survival in a week and the woman I booked it with at South Tyneside College, was saying after 1st April I will need to complete a MIST training course in addition to the Medical & Survival.

Anyone shine some light on the MIST training course??


PostPosted: 10:03 Fri 30th Jan 2009
deepseacon wrote:
Minimum Industry Safety Training (MIST)

MIST FAQ's

[edited by admin]


Posted: 10:35 Fri 30th Jan 2009
Trimtank wrote:
Hmmmmm, I was expecting more information than that.... Shocked


Posted: 14:50 Fri 30th Jan 2009
rayshields wrote:
Would it not have been easier to post a link to this info rather that paste the whole thing from another website?

I believe the MISt thing is the Employing Company Induction video/DVD. You sit and run through it, takes 30-45 mins tho you can skip it all and just answer the questions. You enter your name and DoB in it and on completion it generates a number which is your unique number that shows you have watched the video.

This can then be used to register to geta Vantage card which is basically a scheme for use in the North Sea on rigs with a central database that holds all your next of kin details, when your medicals and survivals run out etc. 15 years offshore and I only got a Vantage card last year. Never needed one before!


PostPosted: 19:31 Sun 1st Feb 2009
kevnewby wrote:
I have been informed the MIST is gong to be mandatory every year, or is this just rumors?


Posted: 10:56 Fri 14th Jan 2011
LeighR wrote:
I have been reading up on the MIST training trying to find out whether this will become a mandatory course for the offshore industry, however at the moment I looks like it is down to the operators discretion.

The training providers state that the training is valid for 4 years.
James Mc
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www.rovworld.com

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