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Is it any wonder that ROV's are going AWOL when the day rates offered are so low?, what on earth is that excuse for a day rate? Confused

That'll be another ROV floating off into the sunset then... Rolling Eyes

ROV PILOT TECHNICIAN REQUIRED, WRS Ltd

WE are currently looking to fill this position to start in approx 3-4 weeks time for a period of 4 weeks The Position is based in ghana on a high specification/ new build vessel, with accomodation for 100+, mess room and gymnasium. the rate per day is approx £220-260 If you are looking to apply, please make sure you have XLX experiance and also HUET , medical.

Location: Ghana
Job Type: Part-Time
Job Ref.: J388121
To Apply: www.oilcareers.com/content/jobsearch/job_advert.asp?id=J388121
I was on the kettle!
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sounds like the skandi aker. looks like a very nice boat
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Day rates are a scandal at present this is another example ! F**k this,

Im gonna be a Scaff ! ill do 10 times less not have a client breathing down my neck , doing re terms , naving in 0% vis and the rest of it , All i need to know is right for tight left for loose ! and ill get paid more .

Seriously if its not someone that has no idea trying to apply for our jobs its us being raped on DR from these companies that expect a hassle free job rov staff to spend weeks away from home and in return make the same as Philippine [Banned Word] staff .. No disrespect ment by that Wink

Give us a break !
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Guys
it's not gonna be the same again, i was on 900 US$++ in Asia a year or two ago, nobody will pay that again, so i had to take a pay cut or sit on the beach forever, so i am a [banned word] now???????
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Maybe you guys are making a rod for your own back talking about this is a very public way. As an ROV manager if I thought I could get a guy for 300 of whatever currency rather than 400 which I paid last year why would I pay the higher figure.

The quicker the IROVA movement develops the better then maybe as an industry rates can become a little more fixed. This would have a few benefits. It would stop all of this bickering about what is a good and bad rate. It would mean from a management point of view budgetting for manpower would be a doddle. But most of all it would make it a level playing field and would force companies to look after the staff if they wanted to retain them and also get rid of the staff who are on peanuts but not up to the job. If there is no benefit to using cheaper less skilled labour then it would not be used.
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I know this is an old thread but it is still relevant. The way around this is training and competence. You can't say you can swim so therefore you are a diver in industry like at the moment some companies are saying you can play playstation so you are an ROV pilot. The only way to change this is to get IMCA to do more on their competency scheme and training on the rov side. They and some companies forget that the job we do affects not only our equipment but could be directly be life threatening if working with divers in the water, our own potentially dangerous equipment ect. Attention should be paid to this aspect before there is an incident. Also If I was an insurance agent I could see a gaping hole to getting out of paying if indeed the Rov went walkabout as these things sometimes do.(todays free tip to insurance companies) So I guess what I am saying is get out there and learn, be positive and do something where you can to ensure well trained staff that are graded are on your system, books ect. IROVA is from what I understand not a union but an organisation to further the professionalism in our industry and by extension it will give job security from under qualified, underpaid bed warmers.
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Zero viz,

Please remember that IMCA is a guideline only. It's up to the companies (ROV companies / operators) to fine tune this at this juncture. Perhaps the IROVA could help institute a more standardized training syllabus as well as job specific (ROV) safety standards whilst maintaining the "guidelines"....

Pardon me if I've strayed a bit too far from the original topic...
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Also If I was an insurance agent I could see a gaping hole to getting out of paying if indeed the Rov went walkabout as these things sometimes do.(todays free tip to insurance companies)

Err Zero Confused .........................................................
For quite a number of years now most large companies do not insure their vehicles , Especially Eyeballs Smile
Their return and what pittance they pay the Pilots means it is paid off quickly and the justification for higher insurance premiums as a whole does not warrant it Very Happy ............. So I don't think a tip to insurance will happen Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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Lostboy,

Agreed most big companies do not insure vehicles anymore, they cover the prospect of losing an ROV internally, however liability insurance is a requirement for all operators, should for some reason, a case be taken against a company and they refer to such insurance company, I have no doubt that insurance company would be trying every possible effort to avoid making any payment.
Then there is corporate manslaughter, this is more important to the larger companies, because an ROV manager may decide to cut a few corners and take sub-standard personnel on a job, then the MD of that company could end up in jail.
So there is an argument against the idea that the ROV manager's job is just to get bums on seats, and if they can be paid as little as possible then great.
The fact remains an ROV is only as good as the people you send on it.
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It is not a case of just filling seats. I have come to realise over the last year that there is a massive amount of variation in what guys will ask for if given the option.

It is not only the employers doing the shafting. Some guys are shafting themselves. I know I would never ask for as much as some on here but I do have a lower level which I would never go down to.

We all spout off about how rubbish rates are. Maybe we should all be working out a reasonable rate for each level and try to get the guys all asking for about the same money. A bit of unity on this would do two things.
1. Stop the dross undercutting the good guys and becoming seat fillers.
2. Force the agencies to pay a fairly consistant rate accross the board.
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Here's holding my breath Very Happy
Viva Le Revolution ! Shocked
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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Does anyone know what percentage the agencies are taking or at least try and take before we both agree on a figure. Is it safe to say that they would take between 10% and 30% of what the client is paying.

This that they always seem to have to get back to the client to "ask" them if they are willing to pay more, when you counter their first offer.

Just like shareholders of companies want to make more money every year, what is so wrong with us wanting more this year than last year. The only thing that we really have in our own hands is setting our rate. That is the only time you are in full control.

Also feel that ROV managers are to blame here. Especially once that have made the progression from within the ROV industry. How many times haven't I worked with the guys that are being promoted to the office. All of them keep telling you that they will look after you once in office, but it doesn't take long before they got their company hats on. Can't blame them though as they are looking out for their own job and future.

Feel we operate in too many different countries and too many different operations (drill support, pipe-lay, etc) to ever think a union or something like IROVA will level the paying and competancy field. Don't you think that, that is the reason why IMCA is still only giving out guidelines. The companies that are hiring us for so called peanuts are the members of IMCA, surely if they wanted to they could get IMCA to make it so that we all need cert's like the diving industry, but then they will have to pay more.

So bottom line, fight for what you feel is a fair wage. If you are forced to take a few bucks less this trip then do it. You can always try and make it up with your next job. Just what ever you do, STOP complaining. You signed, no one held a gun to your head and believe me, no one on this forum will help you out with money should you decline a job because you feel it is too low.
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The fall of the GBP is what pisses me off the most. No one compensated the differrence.

All and all, offer and demand will always rule our pay scale.

Once the industry picks up again, we will see our rate go up accordingly. In the meantime, we need to eat.

As for agency, we need them. I know the one I usualy go for used to take 15% and another one took 20%. But I would not be surprised if they are taking more than that in order to stay afloat.

Think about it. Less work, less guys working, less income for them.

No need to get upset over it. Just be prepared to squeeze as much as possible when work picks up again.

Recession sucks.
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Scotbev
Yes I know IMCA has only published guidelines that the ROV companies basically wrote themselves. You hit the nail on the head as to what IROVA could be doing for us and the industry. By them getting involved in the "fine tuning of the guidelines " They could do allot more than the "revolution" lostboy is alluding to. Everybody just standing up and demanding more money wont hack it. We live globally and it will not be a problem recruiting 100 million ROV pilots from the masses. What that will do will make the rov industry the laughing stock of the offshore industry to be used only when really needed.
I don’t think you strayed of the topic because rates and training are interconnected. You sell you skills, knowledge and experience for a price to these companies. Why should they pay you if you don’t have anything to offer in the first place. If you want to sell for a higher price you need to constantly improve these too.

Lostboy
Various companies have different insurance portfolios. Although I don’t doubt that there are some companies and even big companies out there self insuring their subs there are companies that are insured. I needed to hire a tool the other day and had to prove $500K insurance before taking it out the door. My toy errr eyeball in my garage back home is also insured against loss. Pizzadude is also right about liability insurance even though some contracts are written "knock for knock". There is not a one size fits all here.

My 5c worth
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At the end of the day This Industry is an Industry in itself and no other Industry is like it. That's why it appeals to so many at the moment..... Bit of adventure Cool
But not everybody is suited to it and there are a great number of "Muppets" that have joined for what they think is a "Quick Buck" and an easy life who are desperate to get experience and therefor willing to go out for free in order to get it Evil or Very Mad These people don't care, only interested in recouperating costs in this , still recessional year.
I have heard through the grapevine that quite a few ROV's have been lost over the last 9 months Smile Not all of them were eyeballs and admittedly the Large ones were recovered either due to "Floating Milkcrates" on the surface by luck or due to "Bubbleheads" and DSV's. From what I gather or gleam from the stories , it was not due to adverse weather conditions/ "Acts of god" or bad manufacturer equipment ( In the old days this would be the case but now ROV's are quite reliable ......... if you keep on top of the maintenance and don't shirk at the budget per system).
It was all down to plain old Bad or inexperienced flying Very Happy
I pray everyday and dance naked with chicken bones that this happens Rolling Eyes
Makes me look even better when I go out and do something which I find simple and the muppets found hard Very Happy
The "Management" will learn the hard way what expense justifying projects means. They will lose their job or the company will be bought out or the share holders will look to selling assets that don't seem to make pennies Cool
Watch this space boys and girls .................... Certain things are brewing Very Happy
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !

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