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Just one question from me.

Justatot - who are you? If you are trying to set up a serious association, knowing the name of the person, a bit about your background, where in the world you are etc. would instil a bit of confidence to people who are thinking f joining.

All too often people hide behind nicknames on the Internet.
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Ray

Is that information so important at this stage? Nobody is asking for any money or requesting registration of personal details.

Right now the IROVA idea is being aired to try and gauge whether or not the idea has legs or not. If the decision is yes, then I am sure that all information will be provided in a bona fide manner. At that point I am sure that people would rightly expect those details to be clearly provided prior to becoming involved with the IROVA.

If the decision to proceed with an IROVA is no, then no harm will have been done and nobody will be any the worse off.

Of course I will leave it to justatot to make the final call on that.
James Mc
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www.rovworld.com

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Gents,
Just a note to bring you up to date.

I and others are at present working on website,pay and conditions,levels of entry and requirements for joining.Present objectives and future objectives.

It will be our intention to appoint local representatives for each country or region covered by us as a local point of contact .

A number of companies have expressed interest in our evolvement and have offered assistance.

This association will work with bone fide fair companies who will be listened to for their needs,but it is the intention that the majority of ROV peoples needs take priority.

This association will be run for and by ROV people only with the exceptions of administrations etc.

There is already email provisions been made and are up and running.

The most important of which at this time is....


register@irova.org for registration enquiries and........

info@irova.org for general enquiries.

Please spread the word and offer your views on the ROVWORLD forum for open and transparent discussion.
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Ray,

Re your inquiry of my identity.
My background and identity are known to a couple of people who are working closely with me at this stage.

If your enquiry is of the utmost importance to you to enable this association to go forward,please email me at info@irova.org and I will respond although I thought maybe some more important matters may have come to mind other than my identity to find the future of our industry.

Thankyou for your interest and input.
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justatot wrote:
Ray,

Re your inquiry of my identity.
My background and identity are known to a couple of people who are working closely with me at this stage.

If your enquiry is of the utmost importance to you to enable this association to go forward,please email me at info@irova.org and I will respond although I thought maybe some more important matters may have come to mind other than my identity to find the future of our industry.

Thankyou for your interest and input.


No, you're allright. I will leave you to your endevours.

I would just warn people, as we do with any other anonymous person who requests email addresses, bank details, CV details etc. is to take care when dealing with people you have no idea who they are, where they are based, and the dangers that may occur when you give out such information.

The rules on here state that any recruiters on here always have to post full contact details, I just feel that the same should be made of someone wishing the same thing for this organisation.
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rayshields wrote:
justatot wrote:
Ray,

Re your inquiry of my identity.
My background and identity are known to a couple of people who are working closely with me at this stage.

If your enquiry is of the utmost importance to you to enable this association to go forward,please email me at info@irova.org and I will respond although I thought maybe some more important matters may have come to mind other than my identity to find the future of our industry.

Thankyou for your interest and input.


No, you're allright. I will leave you to your endevours.

I would just warn people, as we do with any other anonymous person who requests email addresses, bank details, CV details etc. is to take care when dealing with people you have no idea who they are, where they are based, and the dangers that may occur when you give out such information.

The rules on here state that any recruiters on here always have to post full contact details, I just feel that the same should be made of someone wishing the same thing for this organisation.



Ray,

This is a bona fide endeavor. I WILL VOUCH FOR THIS. We should all get involved and discuss where our industry is going... or better yet, where we want it to go.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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rayshields wrote:


The rules on here state that any recruiters on here always have to post full contact details, I just feel that the same should be made of someone wishing the same thing for this organisation.


Ray

You have a valid point and I did consider this a while back.
The problem as I see it is that there is currently no association, so meeting any such request would call for the person to give out personal details on-line which is somewhat different than a company or an association posting their office contact information.

If someone wishes further clarification on this they can email: info@irova.org
I can assure you they will receive a response within reasonable time.

All,

The person behind this is known to me also, and has my vote on this.

In time, the framework will fall into place along with official contact information and all will become clearer. Until that actually happens I feel the level of two way disclosure (both by the founders and those that are registering interest) is acceptable at present.

At this stage nothing more than a request for people to register interest in forming an association has been asked for. Maybe a name and email address at most. No CV's, or other personal contact details are required.
If potential members are uncomfortable with supplying even that, minimal, information then they can simply vote in the poll now running on the site.

If an existing company or entity were trawling for CV's, or names with addresses and phone numbers being requested, it would be another matter entirely. In such instances the forum regulations Ray mentioned would be applied.

I hope this explanation meets with Forum members approval.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

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Hi, I've been a bit out of touch of this idea for a few weeks (work, real life etc are such a drag sometimes!) but I am still very interested in this idea.

A few comments about the draft entry requirements:

Having a set number of flying hours and offshore days kind of puts me off. I've met several "pilots" who apparently have 300 hours flying time but wouldn't know how to turn on a multimeter or use a soldering iron.

I'm concerned that these requirements are aiming at pilots specifically, and I'd like to see this organisation open to people who design and build ROVs, and those who use AUVs, as well as researchers etc.

I think James' idea of allowing people to join now and sorting out membership levels later is probably best.

On pay limits:

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but I don't really want an organisation saying how much I must be paid. I'm might be in a minority, but I do this type of work because I enjoy it, and if someone were to offer me an interesting and exciting job that wasn't very well paid, I wouldn't want to tell them I couldn't take it because I'd get kicked out of the IROVA! I feel that membership of the IROVA should convey increased value such that companies are willing to pay members what we deserve - the "carrot" approach rather than the "stick" approach.

LEM
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I expect someone has already thought of this, but theres no mention on the forums so I'll go ahead:

I think the next step would be to set up the IROVA as a legal organisation. Some kind of non-profit group, with a charter or rules or something.

I'm not sure how to go about doing this, but there are lawyers who do. I believe that if we were to approach a large law firm, tell them that we are a group of (20+? more?) professionals interested in setting up a association, and ask for advice how to go about it, they would likely provide at least some free advice in the hopes of getting the ongoing business of a few hundred+ professionals in the future.

I'm guessing there will be some sort of legal structure that other organisations take in these circumstances - one that protects subscriptions from members, puts legal limits on the power or the officers, requires published yearly accounts and generally keeps everything above board. Once a legal entity exists, it would be possible to get a bank account etc, and ask for subscriptions from members.

I'll be happy to pay a reasonable subscription/membership fee on the off-chance that this develops into something useful.

LEM


Last edited by Lemmin on 01:02 Fri 16 Jul 10; edited 1 time in total
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Lemmin wrote:
I expect someone has already thought of this, but theres no mention on the forums so I'll go ahead:

.....I think the next step would be to set up the IROVA as a legal organisation. Some kind of non-profit group, with a charter or rules or something. ......

LEM


This is exactly what is being investigated at present. It will take time, but my understanding is that the drive is towards some form of legally registered non profit making association.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

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James,
Its exactly what you say Im busy with it now.More news when I can.
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Lemmin,

Thankyou for your valuable input.

Entry Requirements..

I wouldn't dream of setting an entry level based soley on piloting hours.Everyone in our industry knows ,that these hours have been abused over and over again, however, what I am proposing with entry levels ,consists of a number of factors.ie checkable information on all imputs prior to membership at a particular level,plus testimonies from peers.

We mostly all agree that what we have at the moment is insufficient and uncheckable,I would wish to change that ,and be able to tell potential clients ,or companies ,working with us ,that the particular member with that membership number ,has had his abilities looked at and deserves that particular title,other than whats happening now ,where people with absolutely zero are sent offshore and are carried by others at the behest of the introducer.

There is no reason to stop anyone who is involved in the ROV industry from joining. I'm pretty sure there would be no objections to forming specific categories.


Pay Levels...

In order to combat the unscrupulous companies who are at present paying as little as 25 dollars for a fair days wage for an ROV pilot offshore ,I and many other I have spoken with, would wish a client using a member of our association ,for work, would pay that person a minimum fair limit, set by the people in the industry.This does not stop anyone from negotiating a higher rate for their experience or specialism.I wish to form a minimum level and not a maximum.
Im sure there will be many acceptable exceptions to this rule but for the bulk of offshore workers a minimum is needed and wanted.
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I like this idea of starting at the bottom.... and of course, having this idea ripple upwards. But let's not just think of the pay packets. All the other facets within our industry should and need to be looked at and some sort of standardization should be attained. Safety, job security, pensions (without the scammers being involved), share options within a company one may be loyal to, creature comforts, and possibly a slew of other issues that could be thrown around the table.

Now, it's up to more people getting interested in our OWN association.... For all you guys with a lot of talk.... Bring it on - PLEASE!!!!!
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Gents,

The formation of a non profit making association is underway as is a website.

Numbers of support is increasing slowly and I am starting to see a variety of nationalities getting involved.

We are starting to hear of more companies following others in reducing our rates.Lets get this together sooner rather than later or never to allow us to arrest this bad situation.

Lets hear more about companies who are following this path,they will gain in the short term but loose in the long term if they continue.
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Aren't the IMCA certs enough to go by then?

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