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Thankyou for the reaction.....

1/ Why?

I think that following the try by members to get the RMT to help us we found that like many other parasites they enjoyed the income but didnt know who we were never mind try to help us.After all we dont drive trains .Do we?

If we dont who else is going to?

If we dont. what is going to happen to our industry?Cheaper bums on cheaper seats like a couple of companies are doing now? Keeping a couple of knowledgable guys under the threat of loosing their jobs if they dont carry the cash cows filling those seats?

Letting training schools and made up bodies like IMCA dream up more ways of keeping themselves in business by working with the schools to get another buck out of our pockets?

Allowing people who are not in our business dictate how our business should be run and make a buck or two out of us?

It would give us.....yes us....ROV people the chance to decide the future of what we do.

Allow us to go to work knowing what our pay packet will be at the end of the job and maybe cut out some of these fly by night agencies who are also parasitical on our skills.
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2/
What power can we gain to evolve our industry?

Im sure if we go on from here we can get a more accurate number of ROV people active in our industry.

When we are happy with those numbers our goal should be to get the biggest majority or All to join our association.

If we have most behind us then we stand in a position of power as opposed to the position of begging a job whereupon we can negotiate directly with hiring companies to come to our terms and conditions.
Not all hiring companies are into shaving the bucks off our arse and Im sure if we are reasonable we will get backed by responsable companies who understand their need for our expertise.

We will also have the power to ask those companies to stop using anyone not a bone fide member of our association therefore taking the headache of companies and agencies making money from our endeavours.

Believe me any company who has the choice of 60 or 70 percent of screened and bone fide members of an ROV body will use them as opposed to the 30 or 40 percent of blaggers,fly by night,or people who cant string a sentence of english together.

It would also give us the power to let hiring companies know that if having agreed to work with us that non association members should not be used as bone fide members will only work with bone fide members.
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3/
If we do.Whats to stop the companies and IMCA,training schools etc etc,,,,

If we stand as a big majority of Bone Fide ROV people the companies or IMCA or the training schools will have to fall into line with us.

Dont underestimate our skills we give a modern cutting edge skill compatable with cutting edge technology why should people who maybe professional managers or salesmen or trainers earn buck from our pockets without our say so.

If we as a body say NO then what they gonna do train up double quick enough guys with our experience and skills to cover the work required worldwide.?????????? NO I think not and they know it.
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4/
We dont know the numbers etc......

Ok I dont know the numbers but Im sure with our collective inquisitive minds we can find out.

I do not see this as an insurmountable problem.

Yeah and ok my spelling may go out now and again but Im not saying this for spelling practice,Im sure we have many elequent members amongst us.
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5/
How can we fund this association?

We all know nothing can be done with nothing and funding for this will come from us......yes us....as an ROV body helping themselves.Maybe just maybe one or two companies will help us along but at the end of the day Id rather pay a few bucks to a couple of ROV people to negotiate for us than pay the train drivers union to fill their coffers.You never know if we have a surplus maybe a nursing home or charity or something.
Again Im sure we have plenty of clever people in our midse that can work that out.
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6/
How can we police it?

Easy,we discuss and democratically decide our entry requirements and also our pay gradings etc etc. If you do not meet the criteria then you dont get in.

Once companies come into our fold then part of your certification will be a checkable registration of our body.

Again Im sure there are plenty clever people amongst us who can suggest the best way.
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7/
How much?

I have no idea at this time but its something that will be addressed at the right time.

Hopefully much less than the RMT subs
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8/

I have no idea at this time,again its something that needs looking at.


Guys,I dont have all the answers but for sure it must be a couple of knowledgable and elequent ROV people.
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TC
I have answered as best as I can at this time.

Anybody please feel free to jump in at any time with your views.

If things progress then maybe we can start individual threads for individual queeries.

If worried about pushing your head above the parapit at this time I suggest using a nom de plum known only to yourself.

You can bet if this starts going that many people will try their best to scuttle it but I for one will not let that stop me trying.
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justatot wrote:
TC
I have answered as best as I can at this time.

Anybody please feel free to jump in at any time with your views.

If things progress then maybe we can start individual threads for individual queeries.

If worried about pushing your head above the parapit at this time I suggest using a nom de plum known only to yourself.

You can bet if this starts going that many people will try their best to scuttle it but I for one will not let that stop me trying.


This last point is valid as a certain ROV company worked out my posting identity on here not long ago and actually stated that they would not employ me on the off chance I might post something negative about them on here .
tough as I have plenty of work from other companies who like my attitude but it could be a worry to some.
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I don't mean to be inflammatory here, but unless you set the entry requirements for your association in point 6 incredibly low. i.e No recognised trade, then you won't achieve the majority you want for point 3.
This kind of then gives a lie to your point about having cutting edge skills in a cutting edge industry. We drive remote controlled cars that sink mate. The technology is such nowadays with autos and onboard diagnostics that thinking is optional for most new systems. Don't get me wrong, in twenty years before the mast, I've met some great minds in this industry. More than ten but probably less than twenty. Three of them are in the offices now though.
For what it's worth, come up with something workable and I'll be behind you 100%. I don't like the way it's going either, but look around you in your next five jobs and count the lads whose only skill making a chair moist and you'll be surprised how many are the 'experienced' people you want to protect.
Rab Black
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Thanks for the feedback.
I was hoping that people like yourself would have some ideas on creating something workable,Its early days yet and this thing wont happen quickly as Im sure everyone knows.

All jobs cannot be done with people with little or no capabilities,its one of the big reasons that we should form some kind of association to allow discerning clients the ability to know what they are getting for their money.
Lets face it IMCA has failed to stop this growth of unskilled people so surely we should try ourselves to become more professional at what we do.
The entry standard should be set at exactly where all members decide it should be.
As with everything new consideration must be given to people already in the industry and if they have blagged their way so far and have not reached any sort of standard of skill then they will weed themselves out.As for newbies and wannabes then they should be given a clear standard that they must come up to before being accepted into our realms,instead of them going to some school and paying thousands of pounds for what in effect is a useless piece of paper in many circumstances.
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Justatot.....there are some great pilots out there who are not great technicians and vis-versa but all are useful guys in a ROV team......just as there are some people who are a waste of space on board .
Any scheme has to be able to cater to all strengths , some kind of oversight group would have to be formed of respected old timers . Not an easy task.
Your ideas are good but the devil is in the detail and the disparity and sheer divergence of all involed is the biggest obstacle, probably only this forum is the main talking shop and contact point for most ROV personel and we all know many who dont bother looking here either.[/u]
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Thanks for that.
Yes I agree and the devil is in the detail but hopfully the detail will come through discussion on here as I think you are right that this is the hub of whats happening in the industry.

Maybe if word spreads a bit then those people who dont look on here may come in for a look and help us all along the way.

I have seen many people with strong views on here regarding our industry I just hope those same knowledgable people will jump in and help us all along then maybe in a shortish time we can start a little detail and try to tie it down to the satisfaction of all concerned.

Maybe firstly we should try and find a starting point and go from there.
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You commented that IMCA have failed to produce a decent standard of ROV pilot, (or whatever the words were). IMCA is a multinational body that covers a variety of areas of offshore work and many, many companies have signed up to be part of it.

How will a 'self regulated' ROV body persuade such companies that it's 'code of conduct' is that much better than the IMCA one?

As for your earlier post regarding the 'lack of backbone' etc of the ROV industry - maybe you would get a more positive response if you didn't verbally alienate people before you have even started to constructively get your ideas across.

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