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ROVWork wrote:

Here's hoping that things are picking up, especially from a rates perspective, and good luck on the trip, everyone's got to have at least one plaything!!


Er... that was probably tongue in cheek remark. Micbeth did say unacceptably low!
If I remember correctly the Porche joke was referring to a post further up in this thread.


Causing offence or not, it does highlight that at least one UK agency (not necessarily STR) is indeed trying to get people to go to Oz on roughly 50% of the agreed Oz MUA rate.
Not only that but (no doubt) there will be tax to be paid by the individual also.

Surely the the guilty parties (Agencies and people that take the jobs) must be aware that they are actively undermining the agreed rates for working offshore in Oz?


As for trying to work as a supervisor in Oz on a job where the trainee on your shift is on more money than you... that's another matter!
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Ok.. agreed it's unacceptable, but I'm sure that you don't need another individual on here going on about how what was unaccptable last year is acceptable now, people are cutting their rates to appear competitive, in most cases voluntarily, simply because they need the work, and we're not just talking about newbies here.

Take this Mohawk job in Nigeria, I spoke to someone actually willing to go and do that for £350p/d - unheard of 6 months ago.

And please don't think the agancies are against you guys either, beacuse working on a margin basis, the more you earn, the more we earn.

In most cases, if you have a good relationship with an agency, and they encourage you to take a cut, don't be upset, it's beacuse they've been limited to what they can offer, or more likely that they'll want you to get the work rather than some other guy, (at least it is with me). what's the worst you can say.... No?

If I remember correctly, this position was originally offered up to $2000AU p/d, which I don't think for a moment is unreasonable, admittedly having very little experience of Oz and it's working practices leads me to believe I might not be the best person to comment on this.

Apologies if this sounds like a rant, it's really not, the last thing I want to do is cause a row.
Andy Falconer
Oil & Gas and Renewable Energy Consultant
STR Group

afalconer@strgroup.co.uk
0044 2392 322390
www.strgroup.co.uk
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Folks,

There's a glut of new(ish) ROV personnel. Any good manager will weed out necessary dead weight to get the best personnel possible at a fair rate for both parties. Point being is: we should get paid our worth....
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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If I remember correctly, this position was originally offered up to $2000AU p/d,


That's an extremely good supervisor's rate, for almost anywhere. That's around US$1750 or £1150 at today's exchange rates. I said almost anywhere because I still wouldn't go to Nigeria for that.

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And please don't think the agencies are against you guys either, because working on a margin basis, the more you earn, the more we earn.


I have a suspicion not all the agencies work on a pure percentage margin basis. The recent supervisor position offer I received for Australia almost immediately had £200 added to the day rate and re-offered as a pilot/tech position after I refused the job because the day rate was too low. Where did this £200 magically appear from? Was the agency holding it back for themself and trying to get away with paying a low rate? Or were their clients trying it on and only increasing rates when people not ignorant of going rates questioned them? If it was the client trying it on then shame on the agency anyway for going along with it.

Maybe you could shed some light on this Andy.

Do clients offer a day rate plus agency commision and then audit the day rates that agencies actually pay, or can the agency take any amount they like from a gross amount offered by the client and leave the client ignorant of the amount they are passing on?
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Micbeth wrote:
The recent supervisor position offer I received for Australia almost immediately had £200 added to the day rate and re-offered as a pilot/tech position after I refused the job because the day rate was too low.


I've seen similar things happen before. I refused a supervisors job once (with an agency I hadn't ever worked for, but it appears they had my details) then a short while later my regular agency offered me the same job with the same client which was on the money, so I took it.

I suspect all was not fair on this Oz job offer.

regards
James Mc
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Hi Micbeth.

I'm sure you're right, in my experience there's nothing stopping an agency from quoting a charge rate, and paying the contractor what they're looking for. I personally think, that this is not only dishonest, but surely has a tendency to backfire

As for that £200 that magically appeared, it could be either the client being a bit cheeky, or the recruiter taking the michael, - difficult to say, but my money's on the client, I can't see a recruiter claiming £200p/d and thinking he can get away with it?
Andy Falconer
Oil & Gas and Renewable Energy Consultant
STR Group

afalconer@strgroup.co.uk
0044 2392 322390
www.strgroup.co.uk
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ROVWork wrote:
...I can't see a recruiter claiming £200p/d and thinking he can get away with it?


In the main I feel you are correct.
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Thanks for the feedback Andy.

I agree with James, in the main I think any agency trying it on will get found out in the end, but I also think it is not in the best long term interests of an agency to present way below par rates on behalf of a client. Despite what people in offices think most of us people at the other end of the information chain are not stupid and we nearly always know when we are being misled or taken advantage of. If I had a dollar for every time I have heard the old saying "How do you know when the ops manager is lying to you, etc. etc" I wouldn't need to work offshore anymore.
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ROVWork wrote:
Hi Micbeth.

I'm sure you're right, in my experience there's nothing stopping an agency from quoting a charge rate, and paying the contractor what they're looking for. I personally think, that this is not only dishonest, but surely has a tendency to backfire

As for that £200 that magically appeared, it could be either the client being a bit cheeky, or the recruiter taking the michael, - difficult to say, but my money's on the client, I can't see a recruiter claiming £200p/d and thinking he can get away with it?


in my old telecoms days a job might be offered by client companies to agency at say £38 an hour for a senior tech the agencies usually skimmed between 18-20% for themselves which meant i would get £28-£30 an hour which was fair as the agency had heavy overheads and had to pay me weekly but often got paid by companies monthly or worse so the agencies had to have excellent credit ratings and cash flow to make a living and profit. The problem was some agencies got greedy and tied offering £18 an hour or less so increasing the margin to 50% some even managed more Manpower was infamous for margins of 60% Then the agencies slowly forced the rate down as they screwed us and each other eventually killing themselves and driving all the good guys out of the industry.
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Liddle,

Fair??? Hell no!!! Heavy overheads??? More like fat cats' greed!!! If anything, they only deserve 2 - 3 %.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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If anything, they only deserve 2 - 3 %.


I am not entirely in agreement with you there.
I think the old saying pay peanuts, get monkeys is just as valid with agencies too.

If I am getting a day rate consistent with historical precedents and the agency is providing good service with things like prompt payment, passing on all the facts about the job I am going to, passing on local agent's details, passing on all flight booking details so that I can do prior online check-ins, giving me adequate lead time notice for the job, etc, then I don't care what they are making on top of what they are paying me. If I am happy and they are making a decent wedge on top, then I am more likely to get regular work offers from them too.

We all have the right to make a decent living if earned in a fair manner, no matter where we fit in the food chain of this business.
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Still..... there's more that don't deserve it than not..... I would much prefer the dosh to come my way.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Hi Guys,
My name is Rick Geddes and I am endeavouring to my head wet in this industry. I have come from 16 years within the Mine warfare world with the Oz navy. I have had exposure with a number vehilcles i.e. Sutec Double eagle Phantom IV etc,

What I am after is some advice for getting a start in the game?

Any tips or advice would be great


Kind Regards
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Ricko wrote:
Hi Guys,
My name is Rick Geddes and I am endeavouring to my head wet in this industry. I have come from 16 years within the Mine warfare world with the Oz navy. I have had exposure with a number vehilcles i.e. Sutec Double eagle Phantom IV etc,

What I am after is some advice for getting a start in the game?

Any tips or advice would be great


Kind Regards


Ricko,

Before you get a barrage of not-too-polite replies, read the entire forum first... seriously, the entire forum.... before asking the above question. THEN, make a decision. It's all here and been said before.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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scotbeve wrote:
Ricko wrote:
Hi Guys,
My name is Rick Geddes and I am endeavouring to my head wet in this industry. I have come from 16 years within the Mine warfare world with the Oz navy. I have had exposure with a number vehilcles i.e. Sutec Double eagle Phantom IV etc,

What I am after is some advice for getting a start in the game?

Any tips or advice would be great


Kind Regards


Ricko,

Before you get a barrage of not-too-polite replies, read the entire forum first... seriously, the entire forum.... before asking the above question. THEN, make a decision. It's all here and been said before.


Scott

Very well (and politely) put Thumb Up

Ricko

Scott has a valid point. We see this question over and over and yet the answers are already in the forum under (say) Rookie corner and the FAQ section. You might also wish to try a search using our tailored (Search ROVworld) Google search engine too. Look for the search box to the top left of this page.

Good luck!
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up

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