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For those looking for work in the UK.... Here is an emotive subject, but worth some thought/discussion.

For many years British ROV PT's have travelled far and wide plying their trade as ROV techs and done quite nicely out of it. During those years there were very few citizens of those countries that were capable of working with such technology so everyone was happy (it appears).

Shift to 2009... North Sea. These days, as ever ROV companies are doing their utmost to maximize profits for their shareholders but, in the process, appear to have no problem shafting local labour by bringing in non UK/EU citizens and employing them at rates well below standard for this part of the world.

We all know that (in general) any EU citizen has the right to work in any other EU state, there are some temporary limitations imposed on some of the newer EU member states. This is part of EU employment regs. What isn't part of the regs (it seems) is that a non EU citizen shouldn't be flown in, from say Asia, issued a work permit and employed at well below normal rates when there is a local person able to carry out the same work.

I fail to understand how the UK government issues work permits for these foreign nationals when there are, without question, people quite capable of doing the job already in the country which in itself is already suffering high unemployment.

My current understanding is that it's pretty hard for any foreign national to work offshore (UK sector) without

a) Having a valid work permit
b) Having income tax and NI deducted at source (PAYE style).

I also fail to see how the government can't see that allowing the employment of foreign nationals on lower wages means less tax revenue for the country in the end. After all if they cut out this practice, as I believe pretty much happens in Australia, the overall return for the government coffers would be improved and unemployment might also be reduced a little.

I also fail to understand how the managers of these UK based companies feel that it's perfectly fine to shaft their very own countrymen and women, by bringing in foreign cheaper labour and thus adding to the dilemma, when they know full well that they have the very resources they need right under their noses.

There is a moral issue which is being needs considering and I don't mean moral obligations to shareholders!!

High UK unemployment and yet foreigners are being employed in the North Sea on cheaper rates.... What's that all about??
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

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James,

Perhaps your (well-deserved) rant can help open some seasoned ROV guys / gals eyes and link it to the the Yun0n thread. Get off yur backsides and JOIN!!!!
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Exactly what I said would happen if companies paid different rates for persons from different regions. If all were paid the same rates for the same work this couldn't happen. Now those on the high rates from the UK are crying because those that they said deserved less money because they lived elsewhere but have now caught up technologically and are taking the jobs because they are cheaper. It's your own fault for thinking you could work in other areas of the world at a higher rate than the locals. Now you want protection from those same locals working in your part of the world for lower rates! C'mon guys, you were happy to earn more than those guys and now that they're taking your jobs, as predicted, you want to cry and claim protection. As stated long ago, ROV is an international job and the price of oil is the same the world over, so why not the same pay for the same work?

This is exactly the same reason for the decline of the British merchant seaman - overpriced.

Awaiting the fallout
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Unlike the tax scaling used for many a persons wages in the UK and a few other like countries, the pay scales of ROV personnel are more varied.

I have always been a proponent of a tabled pay rate scale for ROV people based on their years of experience in as well as the number of different vehicles they have worked on. The pay table I'm envisioning is more of that like the US IRS tax tables. Ie: as the IRS increases taxes for every $999.99, the rates should reflect / change for every 2 years of service, the position, the actual job task, the particular vehicle, the location (LONG crew boat rides? Strife / rife??), and any other variables that could fine-tune the pay scale. Personally, I don't care where a lad or lass is from as long as they can pull their weight and do their job responsibilities they signed a contract for. Fair appraisals from their direct supervisor / superintendent could also be used for a safety / production bonus scheme.

A governing body could be used as a watchdog based on bona fide grievances. Once again, I guess you readers probably know where I'm going with this and what goal I would like to see before retiring soon..... You young guys should really pick the brains of the seniors and figure where we went wrong!!!! Don't be fooled.... you're not getting paid well. Have a serious thought to my (logical) rant.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Any employer caught using an employee who does not have a valid work permit or other legal right to be in the UK will be severely fined. Our company did a review of all staff to ensure they were all legal a while back - even those born here in the UK.

There are various schemes which allow workers to get a work visa valid for 12 months. http://www.workperm.com/immigration-uk.php has details of the Highly Skilled Programme, or the newer scheme which I assume most of the offshore companies are getting people in on Sector Based Scheme Work Permits. All they have to do is show there is a shortage, which I'm sure they can easily do.

As said, any other EU worker can work in any other EU country withot any permits etc. The newer countries such as Poland can also do this, but they have to register with the Workers Registration Scheme.

Brits/Yanks/Ozzies have been going abroad and taking work from locals for decades - is this not just payback? Smile
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Ray , I have no problem Foreigners earning the same amount as me ,
(If they know what they are doing that is Confused )
But only if they are being paid the same Shocked
If they are any good , why not Shocked
But if it's bums on seats Evil or Very Mad
Kiss my ass Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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ROVRatt wrote:
the price of oil is the same the world over, so why not the same pay for the same work?


Gas is cheaper is SA though?

It would have taken 20 ZAR to buy one litre of diesel in the UK last year. Thats 1600ZAR to fill an BMW X5 that you rich Gauteng'rs all run about in...
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lostboy wrote:
Ray , I have no problem Foreigners earning the same amount as me ,
(If they know what they are doing that is Confused )
But only if they are being paid the same Shocked
If they are any good , why not Shocked
But if it's bums on seats Evil or Very Mad
Kiss my ass Twisted Evil


We have never been paid the same as Norwegians when working in the Norwegian sector for doing the same job (maybe it's because we are not any good Very Happy ).
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Guys,

With all this IMCA accreditation (and subsequent bulls_ _ t paperwork), I don't see the problem of who works where.... In house appraisals are SUPPOSED to weed out the crap.... The pay isSUPPOSED to reflect one's level. See my suggestion above for a table-type pay rate / pay scale schedule.
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Quote:
We have never been paid the same as Norwegians when working in the Norwegian sector for doing the same job (maybe it's because we are not any good ).

I have not come across these special people who are as good , Ray , ...... May be better than you Laughing
I worked many times in Scandinavia only because they DID NOT have anybody to do the work and I WAS paid a good sum because It was the only incentive to get me there in the first place !
I have only seen a few wooden tops in British waters but I have seen many Brits work in Wooden top waters Shocked
The Noggies have a different pay structure to us , Less people as well Cool
We on the other hand have a F@#ked up government , crap pay structure plus TOO Many people ( And half of them do F@#k all anyway Shocked )
If we did have the same policy as the wooden tops we would have less Parasites coming to our country in the first place , to work offshore or to sponge off benefits Confused
"Dead wood" should be Burnt or thrown away !
Down with Spongers Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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I'll join your uni0n! :L :L
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Laughing
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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lostboy wrote:
Ray , I have no problem Foreigners earning the same amount as me ,
(If they know what they are doing that is Confused )
But only if they are being paid the same Shocked
If they are any good , why not Shocked
But if it's bums on seats Evil or Very Mad
Kiss my ass Twisted Evil



Shocked Shocked You guys still lucky,In singapore There many foreigners workers from India,indonesia,thailand,philippine,myanmar,china,vietnam and malaysia.They are all over the industries in Singapore.The rate of India ,China,myanmar,thailand,indonesia and vietnam are the lowest compare to Singaporean.Nearest 40% are foreigners who work in singapore and the worse thing is when those low rate works in singapore,Company will taking advantage to singaporean workers by lowering down the rate,cut Singaporean workers insentive,benefith and even easyly get fired because they can find cheap labour workers in the market.The thing is high rate better quality than the cheap one.
Sad Sad Sad

Cheers
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Yes , Sorry Catfish , That is the truth of it Confused
But due to the specialised Industry we are in , It can be quite expensive when the ROV is damaged Sad
90 % of all cock-ups in the ROV industry is Human error , either directly
( Flying badly ) or indirectly ( No maintenance or bad maintennace )
So if they wish to Utilise cheap labour for this job then my rate will go up when they approach me after it is F#@ked Twisted Evil ( Same as Scott said Very Happy )
Considering that the ROV Industry has been going on mainly in The North Sea or British waters ( Over taking the US in production and utilisation since the eighties ) More Succesful ROV Maunfacturerers for the comercial market in the UK . It is fair to say that there are more Pilots from the UK than anywhere else ( With experience Smile )
I don't mind teaching trainees due to the trainee making my life easier in the team and knowing that he ( or she ) will earn more as they get experienced.
But if the ROV company decides to use cheap labour ( Indians / Philipinos / Egyptians /Russians / South Americans and the Polish ) to exploit them in the world Industry................................
Kiss my ass Evil or Very Mad You get diddley squat from me Twisted Evil
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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But shouldn't companies need to prove to the authorities that they cannot get a UK worker with the experience/quals (pay rates aside) to do the job?

I guess it may be more a case of them saying that they can't get the right person at the low rate they have offered for the last few months, even though (unbeknown to the agency that issues the permits) the rate was well below par for the job.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up

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