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£15 is that all? I spoke to someone in the RMT office last December and they told me it was £120.
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liddelljohn wrote:
£15 is that all? I spoke to someone in the RMT office last December and they told me it was £120.


Sorry I should have said its around £15 a month. I've edited the original post now.
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Why not just say £180:00 a year or is that just salesman talk ?
That's my gripe Evil or Very Mad
I pay enough fees EVERY year with some justification for it thankyou very much without having to pay an additional ( nearly £200:00 ) for a monthly or yearly news letter telling me that " The ball is in motion " Confused
Unless of course if you are not happy with it you can pull out at any time say after six months or even the third month.
Or can you pay for half a year whilst working .
£90:00 or £100:00 a year sounds quite reasonable £180:00 a year seems alot . It's more than my Personnal insurance premium and I get quite a bit back if I use it.
Do I regret not joining before .............................. Nope !
Would I join in the future ........................... Possibly !
But there has to be a damm sight better policy set out that will assist than just " We are a Uni0n " Shocked
I want to know what the constitution is in big letters and know we haven't got another Bulls-up PDA Shocked
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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The breakdown..

3000 Wannabees and Trainees..

400 blokes waiting for work at home.

50 blokes offshore on crap day rates and keepng quiet about it

2 Ops managers rubbing their hands...

The ROV industry is no different from any other industry. ie, experienced guys train the newbies, once the newbies become experienced they in turn train the newbies and so on.
What's with all the constant winging regarding trainees on this forum? weren't we all trainees once?
The reason so many experienced guys are sitting at home is that they hold the ROV companies at ransom over day rates during peak periods and as a result guess who is last to get work during the not so busy times?
As with all the Yunion talk, I personally believe that we are all in charge of our own destiny and if you're not happy with what you've got then get another job. Remember all the miners who joined the Yunions and went on strike every 5 minutes, where are they now??

Rant over Laughing
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As I said in my post.. We need trainees.. But in a decent ratio to experienced guys.. The old Supv and two trainees business is a very dificult situation to manage and unsafe as well.. Before the trainees started slowly on simple contracts like basic drill support. The gained piloting time and learnt the vehicle and system.. After a year or more they became a P/T.. And they stayed one for 5-6 years (or more) until they became a Supv.. Or Senior PT if they didn't lke Supervising.
There wasn't a dozen different grades.. You were either a trainee, a tech or a Supv. Now guys are obsessed with their grade (tied to their dayrate) and just want to get their compentancy signed off ASAP so they can put in for a rise.. HTF can you have Pilot tech 1's and 2's that can't fly the sub ? ( a few sub eng's too) They have only been on one type of vessel and done one type of work.. Been in the game three years and expect to be a Supv anytime soon..

That's crazy.. ! Before a Supv was expected to have done Mobs/demobs, free flyers, TMS Subs, Barges, Semi-Subs, DSV's, Small work boats and had experience in various water depths and vis conditions.. He was meant to have a broard experience with all the different facets of the industry.. Now a couple of years doing 4/4 on the same boat with the same sub in the same conditions is classed as 'experience' ....What a joke ! It's all getting easier as the subs aren't as dificult to operate now and the engineering is simpler.. The companies are pushing hard to get to their goal of ROV no longer being seen as a difficult job.. they want to demystify it and make it the same as a factory job.. few hour of 'on the job training' and any bod with a tech cert can have a go.... with the relevant drop in dayrate of course.. Another few years and ROVing will end up being done by Phillipinos, Latvians, Polish and blokes from the Congo.. No different from the catering and cleaning jobs onboard...


Last edited by DJansen on 16:08 Mon 27 Apr 09; edited 1 time in total
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Salona , what you say is bollocks ! Shocked
People who freelance make a living on the oil companies work Mainly in the seasonal areas of the world , The Industry is still relatively small but is also unique meaning there is fewer people than say the building industry !
If you freelance there is aways a chance that the demand will go up "In season" but it also means the rates drop when there is less work.
This has ALWAYS been the case !
What has completley screwed it up this time is the amount of "Greenhorns" that have decided going freelance without the experience but wanting the "supposedly" 'Loads-a-Dosh' plus the training schools around the world promising such a fantastic life Shocked ....Flooding the market and making life difficult for everyone !
The rates are still there for anyone of experience and reputation ,
And before you say " You were a trainee once , Give them slack ! "
I was and I also had an apprenticeship and I was on salary Cool
Which is the CORRECT way to learn a trade Shocked
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob !
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Salona wrote:
................Remember all the miners who joined the Yunions and went on strike every 5 minutes, where are they now??.............


Bangs head on table.... once, twice, three times....

Remember all the North Sea divers that joined a uni0n and went on strike once or twice?
Where are they now??

Remember all the Oz ROV guys n gals that joined a uni0n?
Where are they now??

Remember all the Norwegian ROV guys n gals that joined a uni0n?
Where are they now??

It's nothing to do with strikes.... it's to do with collective bargaining for justifiable pay and conditions. Those that utter StrikeStrike as soon that they hear or read the word uni0n would be better going it alone anyway IMHO, but I will point out, because I have seen it first hand... often they are the first to accept the better pay and conditions fought for by those that did join together, whilst they sat on the sidelines.

Collective bargaining is something Police, Fore Brigade, Politicians, and countries do all the time. People need to get away from this idea of Uni0n means striking every 5 minutes That's old style stuff from when?? 70s?? 30-40 years back?? Lets talk about this Century eh?
You tell me how many times the dives have gone on strike on the North sea since say 1985?? If my memory serves me correctly, a partial strike (which didn't amount to much because a lot of individuals buckled or cut their own deals), and much much later an all out (successful) strike after the companies refused to agree to reasonable terms and conditions.

So to counter this every 5 minutes point.. I'm suggesting that a strike once every 15 years might be more like it.

I feel that the reason people are taking pay cuts, loss of west Africa allowance and loss of being paid door to door, is because they think it is still better to go it alone. The case for doing so is very weak when you see more success in this collective bargaining than failure.

This thread was started to discuss why pay cuts are being forced on the game.... going it alone, and acting as a weak loosely connected group of individuals is exactly why.

So...... take your pay cut, go to work, bitch about it in the shack away from the rest of the ships crew (especially the divers if the are onboard in case they take the piss out of you all trip), take less money home and just say ho! hum! that's how it is now, and that's how it always will be. Sounds like a plan.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

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The pay cuts are now hitting the onshore bods as well. During the last month, onshore management at Aker & Saipem have been hit with a 10% pay cut. For some that'll bring them under the new £150K upper tax limit, so there will be a silver lining somewhere.

What hacks me off is the standard of most of the decision making. In one case I was rerouted back to UK from India and had two extra plane changes to save the company a £150 - I missed a connection in Bahrain so I arrived home the next day and it cost the company an extra day...me tired and irritable, and the company out of pocket. Seems to be a job creation thing...letting people who have never travelled organise your flights.

Shocked
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Yes funny how the office 'travel consultant' has never seen a World Atlas or has a scooby doo about connecting flights and which airlines are good..

Their golden rule is ''Never book an 'expensive' direct flight and get your crew there quickly if the scenic route two day five stop option is available''
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Yessssss..... more cost- cutting / efficient accounting .... mind you, in the ME, the wallie-agents do a fine job of messing up any/all crew changes on there own... They don't need a company orifice wallie to farq-up for them as they're experts at it...
I got your economic downturn right here!!!
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Cost cutting on flights/travel is normal practice as we know. If they can get you out to a job well fatigued and straight on shift then job done. After all you do get well paid for the inconvenience...ha ha. No regard for the safety aspect either, aslong as you have hard hat, coveralls and speks on when you injure yourself or your collegue no worries.

I have watched homeward bound Rov guys get picked up and taken straight to the AP after shift, while other depts have gone to hotels. I remember a guy on a job with me years ago killed in a crash due to driving home fatigued....Strange how we are treated.
I wonder if it's because we are toothless in regards to bargaining power??? No it can't be!

Most crew changes are paid for by the oil companies, and this is written into the majority of contracts, so why do companies cream off this aswell and cut the rate for travel days.

It's all obvious guys!!!
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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article6189943.ece

This is why I fear !!
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Shell follows BP with 62% profits plunge

I'm not being drawn in by that one. It's too obvious to be true.
Of course they will see a 60% profit plunge... in the last 6 month or so the barrel has dropped well over 60% and it's nothing to do with the recession either. That's where this so called 'profit plunge' is coming from

They are comparing this years first quarter income with the previous years record high when oil was +$100/barrel.

Of course they will see a massive drop in profits when compared to 2008, but look back a year or so further (2006/2007) and it doesn't look half as bad.

2008 prices were speculative and we all know that. Today's prices are more realistic, but are certainly not signs of the industry suffering.

The current price is still nigh on double what it settled at for some time prior to 2008 when the industry still seemed fairly healthy and good profits were still being made.
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

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Yes funny how they try to spin the 'massive drop in profits'

They always fail to mention that only a few years back they were happy with 25 bucks a barrel..

Comt to think of it I remember one field I worked on that had be developed on the huge sum of 8 dollars a barrel.. I can also remember the Client being cock a hoop at 'first oil' cos the price by then was 14 dollars.. Now 15 yrs later the same field is still producing happily at 50 bucks and last year they were making bacon at 100+.. Oh and did I mention that all the expensive expat staff have been replaced by 'nationals' on a pittance.. Yep it's tough for the oil majors...
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jamesmc wrote:
Shell follows BP with 62% profits plunge

I'm not being drawn in by that one. It's too obvious to be true.
Of course they will see a 60% profit plunge... in the last 6 month or so the barrel has dropped well over 60% and it's nothing to do with the recession either. That's where this so called 'profit plunge' is coming from

They are comparing this years first quarter income with the previous years record high when oil was +$100/barrel.

Of course they will see a massive drop in profits when compared to 2008, but look back a year or so further (2006/2007) and it doesn't look half as bad.

2008 prices were speculative and we all know that. Today's prices are more realistic, but are certainly not signs of the industry suffering.

The current price is still nigh on double what it settled at for some time prior to 2008 when the industry still seemed fairly healthy and good profits were still being made.


Very well said James. Exclamation Exclamation

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