Cr4ppy rates being offered ? Blame the credit crunch.......

Member Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I've had quite a few job offers in the last 5-6 weeks. From several different agencies.. All the jobs were for Supv level positions on constuction contracts.. I had to pass on all of them because of the paltry dayrate.
The rates seem even worse when you convert the Pound into US or another currency..

Everytime the agency has said it is down to 'cost cutting' or because of 'the recession'

Are there really that many exp ROV guys sitting around or willing to work for rates lower than last year to enable the companies to do this ?

Dunno about you fellas but I have had to push hard most years to keep my rate up and get regular payrises... Even with the recent record high oil prices/profits the companies were reluctant to increase rates. But now after a slow start and the 'R' word are they really reducing rates or are some of the agencies using it as an excuse to increase their revenue by skimming more off the top?
Looks like another Month off for me... bu66ered if I will take a pay cut while I have money in the bank and low living costs... Where's my fishing gear ?

ROVworld Webteam Joined: Dec 26, 2003 Location: Scotland

Like everywhere else, you will be hard pushed to justify a pay increase in current climate.

I doubt the Agencies are skimming anything, they have a fixed % so its not in their interest to get lower dayrates for you as they also earn less.

Supply and demand - more people in the industry, more people willing to work for less, all sorts of reasons.

Nice to stick to your guns for a better wage where you can - not everyone can afford to do that. And not everyone will.

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

D and Ray,

Most companies that are hiring direct seem to be paying last years wages (for us oldie / goodies), however, it seems that ANY GBP contract may have slipped down a bit. The ROV companies appear to have frozen the pay rates (for now...). No need to speak of the abysmal pound rate (for guys not living / working in the UK). Won't touch it... I'd rather go broke first. Of course the agencies may try that piffle of the recession excuse - we all know what our come back to that will be!

Ray, the ME office seems to be on GBP rates.... sorry Reece, no can do...

Member Joined: Mar 28, 2007 Location: T-Shack

It is already an interesting start to the year regarding contract bidding and prices.
Prices have had to change to allow a competetive edge, but for 'seasoned' offshore guys, there should be little or no pay cut.

As mentioned earlier, working direct will attract last years rates. Being paid in USD is another bonus of course.

Some of the less creditable agencies WILL use the recesion as a leverage tool to skim a bit more of your pay from you, but stick by your guns and hope that others do the same, and they will have to give.

There are plenty of jobs that all agencies are vying for...some of the 'less well known' agencies that have recently diversified are offering good rates - guess their overheads are less.

Recession?

Do you hear the oil companies ever talk about a recession? They only ever discuss the price of a barrel of oil.

If the recession causes a drop in demand for oil, and subsequently a noticeable drop in oil price, then fair enough (to a point) but.. if oil remains roughly what it was then the revenue for the oil operators is the same and therefore the 'R' word should not be used, especially by an agency!

(to a point)?
Watch for the oil majors to announce annual profits and see how much of a recession they are having!

Member Joined: Nov 05, 2004 Location: Philippines

Here is an article about Pipelaying although a small sector offshore its looks like a busy year.

So why accept low rates

http://www.energycurrent.com/index.php?id=2&storyid=17077

I see also Fugro made some nice Profits during 2008 as did many of the Subsea Operators did also Oil Companys & Service Hand Companies.

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

jamesmc wrote:

Recession?

Do you hear the oil companies ever talk about a recession? They only ever discuss the price of a barrel of oil.

If the recession causes a drop in demand for oil and subsequently a noticeable drop in oil price then fair enough (to a point) but.. if oil remains roughly what it was then the revenue for the oil operators is the same and therefore the 'R' word should not be used, especially by an agency!

(to a point)?
Watch for the oil majors to announce annual profits and see how much of a recession they are having!

Indeed James! Chevron reported a record-breaking profit in Q4 2008... How many others??? Barstewards!

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=74623
Makes interesting reading......what recession??

To understand how this crisis is manufactured:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4764748/The_Obama_Deception_by_Alex_Jones_Divx_697mb

(its quite the download, but some really interesting information is given in this documentary)

TD

Member Joined: Aug 10, 2008

Yes James that was precisely my point. Oil companies have been making record profits recently with massive revenue from the high oil prices.. Many of the contracts running now were signed during the 100 dollar a barrel times so HTF can that affect dayrates now.. Like Scotty says the UK agencies should be worrying about where they are gonna get personel in the next couple of Months when the work peaks in Europe/UK sectors.. I don't think they will be able to attract anybody useful for the stirling rates I have heard in the last couple of weeks.. Every single job was offering 20-50 quid a day less than I was making 18 Months ago... and back then the dollar was 2 -1.. Now say a rate off 400 quid is only worth around 600 bucks.. Not many Supervisors in Asia/NZ/Oz who work for that.. let alone travel half way round the World..

Ray: I wasn't looking for a payrise... I was looking for the same rates that were being paid last year ... I wasn't expecting a pay cut.. None of the companies (AFAIK) are paying their staff guys less now .. are they ?

So why should agency fellas.. who don't get pensions etc be paid less ?

Tis a funny World.. Maybe they think all ROV guys live week to week and are potless.. I'd rather take the rest of the year off than be bullshitted into a paycut... If they want to 'cost cut' get rid of all the dead wood in the office...

This agency control (for want of a better expression) is often brought about by it's 'employees' own undoing.

If people commit themselves financially, so much so that they can't say no when they should, then there will always be someone forced into taking lower rates so that they can still pay for:

Credits Cards
New Car Hire Purchase/Lease
House Mortgage
TV loan
Household furniture loan
Kids!

the list goes on......

As often advised in this forum in the past, but I suspect not always listened to or believed, when times are good live well within your means and put the excess away for when times such as these come along and the agencies try it on.

If an agency called me and mentioned Recession they would get a right verbal ear bashing!

But then I do not have any of the above (listed) baggage for my hand to be forced enough to have to listen for longer than I wish. I sometimes don't know where some agency employees get the cheek to say such things or how they sleep at night for that matter.

I am not a great believer that an agency will always hold out for a higher rate for you. I have often felt that some agencies prefer to get the bulk out on a lower rate rather than a few on a higher rate. It is a bit of a balancing act but their clients will go elsewhere if they keep trying to get better rates.

I will hasten to add that not all agencies are the same. Find one, settle in with them and things will work out. Bounce around in the good times and when market shrinkage occurs you will be left out cold unless you have a really solid CV.
The agency I work with have been fine over the years through good and bad times. I have been with them for just over 5 years. The previous agency and I worked together for about 4 years. No problems there either.

Member Joined: Aug 10, 2008

Well guess I'm in the same boat.. I've always lived within my means and have tucked cash away for a 'rainy day' I don't have any debt or massive payments so I'm happy to hold out for a good rate.. Unfotunately there are alway guys who because of their circumstances (kid's, mortgage, missus etc) who aren't able to go without work for more than a few weeks.. Luckily for me I'm still making cash in the markets to subsidise my savings..

I have been with the same agency for around 4 yrs. I've used others for the odd job here and there and I prefer to go to different worksites .. I know this can be more risky if the market cools but I'm confident that my CV means I always in demand.. That's another reason why I laughed at the ''times are hard' story.. I'd guess that the company was just trying to add some bodies on the cheap.. and if they return for a couple of trips so much the better... If a guy is living in UK the pound still buys a fair bit,, but change that rate to Euros or Sing Dollars and it doesn't look too good..

Wonder how it will be by May/June ? I've had four job emails this morning.. all fishing for availability in a Month or so...

When will they realise that getting and keeping good people isn't difficult.. You just need to show them some respect and pay the best rates..

Oh well... I'm off to the beach.. ''Tough life but someone..........''

ROVworld Webteam Joined: Dec 26, 2003 Location: Scotland

One possible reason for lower Agency rates is that a lot of companies are now using a lot less Agency staff, meaning more are available meaning they can get them for less.

Within my own Company, the usage of Agency staff has been severely reduced compared to the last several years. Mainly due to the introduction of more staff over the years.

Regarding people over stretching themselves - this is what I believe has caused all this financial fiasco. Over the last decade people have been living on credit they can't afford - isn't that exactly what this "tocic loans" that has caused the Banks so much bother?

Member Joined: Aug 10, 2008

Both of those points are vey true Ray.. I can remember when companies had very very few guys on Salary.. They didn't like to pay unless they had work.. But as things got busy they headed back to the salary and direct guys cos they couldn't risk not having key staff for big projects.

There is much less reliance on agency guys now.. and too be honest many of the companies are offering better rates and bonuses than the agencies..

As for the credit crunch. I have been wondering for years how guys on less than a quarter of my income can have two fancy new cars, a house, holidays and all the latest gadgets... The answer.. They never pay for it.. Just keep up the minimum payment on the credit card... Now the piper has come calling.. and worse still us savers are having to suffer for it....

Member Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Location: Thailand

Ray,

You hit the nail on the head with your below statement....

Regarding people over stretching themselves - this is what I believe has caused all this financial fiasco. Over the last decade people have been living on credit they can't afford - isn't that exactly what this "tocic loans" that has caused the Banks so much bother?

Hence, a lot of people in the industry have resorted to under-cutting "just to get a job"