ROVworld Subsea Information
F-E-T is currently recruiting for ROV Personnel, learn more here
 
 
•  Home  •  Downloads  •  Your Account  •  Forums  •
 
 
Search ROVworld

Enter Search Term Below

Custom Search
Site Navigation
 
Site Info
Last SeenLast Seen
Server TrafficServer Traffic
  • Total: 75,144,663
  • Today: 24,186
Server InfoServer Info
  • Oct 01, 2014
  • 02:15 pm GMT
 
Books & Video's



ROVworld Subsea Information: Forums

ROVworld :: View topic - H M Revenue & Customs TAX Ruling
 Forum FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Register  •  Profile  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in

View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Message Author
PostPosted: 20:50 Tue 16 Jun 09  

jamesmc wrote:


So what exactly defines stationary and "in an oilfield" in the eyes of the tax revenue chappies?[/list]


Visited the mentioned link above had a good read. It's a very recent article (13th June 2009) posted by somebody that appears to have done their homework and is known for doing so before they post.

Being further enlightened, I will now answer my own question.

Basically, if the posters research is correct, it appears that the tax man is now interpreting the SED laws as follows:

If a boat has been working for more than five days in an oil-field (for that you might as well read anywhere East of the UK) it will be classed (for the purposes of SED) as an offshore installation and it will remain classified an offshore installation for the remainder of that fiscal tax year, until the next tax year.

In other words you might as well be standing on a fixed platform... even though what you actually on looks like a ship, feels like a ship , moves like a ship and was registered as a ship... but the tax bods, bless their little cotton socks, just don't see it that way!

It doesn't matter a jot to them if a boat is under way, down on weather outside the 500m zone, carrying out a pipeline survey or sitting alongside in Aberdeen. It's still an offshore installation.

If that interpretation is applied and you have been working on a boat carrying out oil & gas related work for more than five days in the North sea, then you have most likely already exceeded the threshold. Any subsequent claim you make for SED may well be rejected. I'm not saying it will be rejected but don't spend the money ahead of time just in case.


See the below extracts from the original article (posted [url=http://ukdivingbrotherhood.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/death-knell-of-sed-in-oil-and-gas-offshore/#comments ]Here[/url])

Quote:
Any vessel will for the purposes of Tax Law only become an Offshore Installation if that vessel conducts work which is classified as ‘Relevant Use’ for 5 days or longer. The 5 day rule is 120 hours from setting up to moving on.

‘Relevant Use’ being;
1. exploiting mineral resources by means of a well;
2. exploration with a view to exploiting mineral resources by means of a well;
3. storage of gas in or under the shore or the bed of any waters;
4. recovery of gas so stored;
5. conveyance of things by means of a pipe;
6. mainly for the provision of accommodation for persons who work on or from a structure which is, is to be, or has been, put to a use specified above.

Exploiting covers all physical work, not just economic work, where the work is carrying out construction, inspection or maintenance of oil and gas fields from the outset to the closure of the field, so that will capture most vessels engaged in this sectors including Diving Support vessels, Construction vessels and ROV vessels as well. But it does not cover decommissioning work once the field has completely shut down.

The terms Stationed or Standing are not based on the exact position of the vessel such as the Latitude and Longitude at midnight or any other time of the day, in that it is not moving.
The revenue have stated in correspondence, that the position of a vessel can be stationed or standing whilst working in the confines of an offshore field where those offshore structures are operationally part of one integrated complex with a degree of operational interdependence, even if the distance moved within the confines of that offshore field, is several nautical miles between various interdependent locations.
The exception is where, within the field, it can be shown that one or more structures are operationally independent of one another, which are a complete rarity in my knowledge.
Also time waiting on weather or tides is time stationed in the offshore field even if the vessel moves to a safe location to do so and will continue to be stationed or standing unless the vessel moves to an entirely different offshore field which is operationally independent of the field the vessel is working in, or a different working location outside the field altogether.


Another point to note if you live in the UK, submit a UK tax return but work overseas.
Quote:
The SED rules apply to all UK residents who submit a UK tax return, who work outside the UK as well, in any waters and who will work on vessels undertaking work of ‘Relevant Use’, where in the opinion of the HMRC those vessels can be classed as an Offshore Installation for tax law.


I recommend you do visit the above link and read the article in full plus have a read of the comments posted by way of response.
Then see what you think.

_________________
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up 

jamesmc



ROVworld Admin

Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 23:12 Tue 16 Jun 09  

The Government is determined to STAMP out SED,unfortunately and they NEED our money....sad but true....this is one hell of a sorry mess....
 

thefidler



Member

Joined: Feb 12, 2009

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 04:57 Sun 21 Jun 09  

People appear to be getting jerked around here and left totally in the dark. It's not their fault either.

I have to say that this is so pathetic! A ship, built and classified as a ship, which moves around under it's own power is nothing other than a ship!

Google ship and see what its says:

From Wikpedia

Quote:
Commercial vessels or merchant ships can be divided into three broad categories: cargo ships, passenger ships, and special-purpose ships.[30] Cargo ships transport dry and liquid cargo. Dry cargo can be transported in bulk by bulk carriers, packed directly onto a general cargo ship in break-bulk, packed in intermodal containers as aboard a container ship, or driven aboard as in roll-on roll-off ships. Liquid cargo is generally carried in bulk aboard tankers, such as oil tankers, chemical tankers and LNG tankers.

Passenger ships range in size from small river ferries to giant cruise ships. This type of vessel includes ferries, which move passengers and vehicles on short trips; ocean liners, which carry passengers on one-way trips; and cruise ships, which typically transport passengers on round-trip voyages promoting leisure activities onboard and in the ports they visit.

Special-purpose vessels are not used for transport but are designed to perform other specific tasks. Examples include tugboats, pilot boats, rescue boats, cable ships, research vessels, survey vessels, and ice breakers.


As far as the rest of the world is concerned they still fall under the category of ships though!

It's been said before but the revenue, or those that work there and issue guidance, are trying to make out that a ship isn't a ship in certain instances when, to everyone looking at one or working on one, it truely appears to be a ship! It has a ships Captain, a ships crew and a pointy end with props at the blunt end!

Sail a DP boat down to the Med and try and convince a pilot, when entering harbour, that it's not really a ship but actually an offshore installation they are helping to guide alongside to the berth. They'd lock you up, once the ship is secure that is.

I say to the UK tax man.... Look somewhere else to suck up money to bail out your UK governments failed billion pound policies.

best regards
James Mc
Portuguese resident.

_________________
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up 

jamesmc



ROVworld Admin

Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 15:35 Sun 21 Jun 09  

TOO BLOODY RIGHT Evil or Very Mad
When the whole of the Northsea goes on strike , Lets see how much the government loses in revenue Twisted Evil
Freeze all the MP's assets that's what I say Twisted Evil

_________________
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob ! 

lostboy



Member

Joined: Jun 05, 2004

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 16:49 Sun 21 Jun 09  

lostboy wrote:
When the whole of the Northsea goes on strike , Lets see how much the government loses in revenue


Not only do I feel that is the wrong approach, but it'll never happen over SED as it must only affect a small percentage of the offshore workforce. I would guess that the bulk of that workforce may not even know what SED is.

_________________
James Mc
Site Admin
www.rovworld.com

Shocked Search First - Ask questions later Thumb Up 

jamesmc



ROVworld Admin

Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 00:53 Mon 22 Jun 09  

Er , No , SED is claimed by a great number of people from Captains , DP operators , AB's ,ROV,Divers,Caterers,Engineers,Riggers In fact quite a large amount of personnel who as it happens work on floating things they call Ships Shocked ( The things that are pointy at one end and blunt the other )
These "floating structures" as the Taxman calls them are used as DSV's Survey , Supplyboats for supplying Confused Standby etc ! Shocked
There's a thought !
How many times have you had to extract yourself from a fishing net that has conveniently got caught around a subsea structure ,pipeline because the Fishing vessel was trawling "In the Field" Or you have seen fishing boats "In the field" working ?
Maybe the taxman will go after them as well !

_________________
Put ya brain in gear before ye open thy gob ! 

lostboy



Member

Joined: Jun 05, 2004

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 01:20 Mon 22 Jun 09  

All this is really going to come down to the first person or tax company that challenges HMRC if they ask for the tax back due to their own made up rules!!
It will all come down to those grey areas started by the HMRCs fudged attempt to get some of their monies back to pay for the moat cleaning exercises of the MPs Very Happy
 

mind-when-this-was-fields



Member

Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Location: sunny eastern europe!!

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 04:37 Mon 22 Jun 09  

Very true....but this government has no limits on the disgacefull mess this country is in
 

thefidler



Member

Joined: Feb 12, 2009

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 06:13 Tue 07 Jul 09  

Unfortunately I have to advise you that the RMT has now been advised that there is no realistic prospect of success with a claim for a Judicial Review over the implementation of the changes on Seafarers Earnings Deductions and their impact on seafarers.

My Comment; basically the briefs said the union would lose in court.

Get saving......

ref; ukdivingbrotherhood
 

thefidler



Member

Joined: Feb 12, 2009

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 06:42 Sat 22 Aug 09  

Not sure if anyone else has seen this but there was a recent SED appeal which HMRC lost.

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=4468

Full details of the decision can be found here

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/judgmentfiles/j4468/TC00110.doc

Watch this space....
 

bulletproof



Member

Joined: Aug 21, 2009

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 08:08 Sat 22 Aug 09  

I'm no legal expert but that judge's ruling would seem to piss right on HMRC's chips on the 2 most vague & contentious points in the current legislation i.e. the engaged in exploitation & the standing/stationed arguments. Go straight to Paras 29, 30 & 31 and have a read

By that man a drink!!
 

pipetracker



Member

Joined: Dec 16, 2006

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 18:47 Sun 23 Aug 09  

Richt boys,

Fits the craic wi the tribunal??

55 pages n am strugglin tae find new rulings?

Fit direct impact has this oan us boat dwellin construction gadgies and fit dae yi think it'll dae tae the HMRC wi respect tae issuin new guidleines?

Are we gonnae benefit ootricht here?

Da' dandy
 

dandydon



Member

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Location: Abz

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 00:34 Mon 24 Aug 09  

Dandy,

I'm not so hot on trying to read Aberdonian dialect in the written form - but I think to answer your question it means that the Taxman cannot decide that a ship that stays on DP be called an offshore installation.

And also just because a vessel has been used as accommodation in the past or originally, it doesn't mean thats all it can be classified as, and if a vessel is doing a job which is mainly not accommodation, then it is indeed a ship.
 

rayshields



ROVworld Webteam

Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Location: Scotland

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 19:15 Wed 26 Aug 09  

thefidler wrote:
Unfortunately I have to advise you that the RMT has now been advised that there is no realistic prospect of success with a claim for a Judicial Review over the implementation of the changes on Seafarers Earnings Deductions and their impact on seafarers.


nice to see the union got it right then !

piedpiper
 

piedpiper



Member

Joined: Mar 31, 2006

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PostPosted: 03:15 Thu 27 Aug 09  

rayshields wrote:
Dandy,

I'm not so hot on trying to read Aberdonian dialect in the written form - but I think to answer your question it means that the Taxman cannot decide that a ship that stays on DP be called an offshore installation.

And also just because a vessel has been used as accommodation in the past or originally, it doesn't mean thats all it can be classified as, and if a vessel is doing a job which is mainly not accommodation, then it is indeed a ship.



Well Ray,

Thank you very much my good man, what a jolly good outcome if one may be so outwardly joyous.

I will be further enquiring to the aforemention HMRC as to where us gentlemen of the sea should reside with respect to this new outcome.

I will also endeavour to suggest recommendations are forthcoming in a timely and upstanding fashion, to provide us said gentlemen, with sufficient information and guidelines as to our next Seafarers Taxation rebate claim.

I hope you appreciate the effort and indeed lengthy attempt at utilising the "Queens own" in my reply, typing as you don't converse causes a man from the north much unwanted intellectual stimulation to try and utilise new words in my limited but highly develpoed doric napper.......if ye ken fit a mean ken...


A' ma best
Da Dandy
 

dandydon



Member

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Location: Abz

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:       
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic

View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group

Version 2.0.6 of PHP-Nuke Port by Tom Nitzschner © 2002 www.toms-home.com
 
 
Page Generation: 0.25 Seconds
 
 
:: fiblue3d phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by www.nukemods.com ::